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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Multiple language films |
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| Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,879 |
| | Posted: | | | | For films that are in multiple languages (for example, The Cakemaker, which is in Hebrew, German and English), should the audio be listed as "Other" or whatever the primary language of the primary Country of Origin is (so Hebrew for The Cakemaker).
I have always used "Other" but looking at the contribution rules today, there is no clarification for films such as this. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield | | | | Last edited: by Danae Cassandra |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | Tough one, but perhaps how we look at Colors for films could be a guide here too.
For a film that is a Mix we can choose Mix.
So for a film that has a Mix of Languages I think Other fits the best.
Bringing this up, but perhaps this would be a good Feature Request too. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Country of Origin has no relation to country, where the film is set. And further more country (of origin) has no 1:1 relationship to a language: What language should be assigend to an American made film which is placed in Switzerland and spoken in the native languages from there: German, Italian, French and Romansh?
CoO cannot be referenced for assigning the language.
Maybe there could be a way in analysing the film and film plot:
- if there is a part which is dubbed, then I could imagine to assign this dubbing language
- if there is a narrator or a massive frame action narrating the feature, the language of the narrating part could be used
- if there is one person, whose subjective sight is presented throughout the movie, I could imagine to call his language as the most important
...
But all these methods to try to find the single language, which is the most important one, are subjective trials. From the objective standpoint we are missing another language option: multiple (every other option is wrong).
Until we get such an option, I would tend to go the easiest way and assign: other - this is as wrong as any other option but - for most of us, who have assigned languages to most of their films - it can easily be found and replaced when we get the correct option... | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) | | | | Last edited: by AiAustria |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is difficult, indeed. I do know what I *don't* want: I don't want to list a film that's entirely in English but has one (or just a few) lines spoken in another language as "Other". Having some kind of a "Mixed Languages" option would be fine with me, but not if every film with just a couple of lines in another language is suddenly to be listed as such. I mean: just because the characters in a film happen to visit Paris and we see some waiter uttering a few French words, doesn't make it a "Mixed Language"-film. Whatever we do, that we should avoid, IMHO. There would need to be some kind of clarification similar to the "Mixed" color option, which says: "Use when the coloring for at least 10% of the film differs from the rest of the film." Something along those lines would be needed here as well: not to be used for just a couple of lines in another language, but when at least 10% of the dialogue is spoken in another language. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | How is the audio track listed on the disc? I would use that before anything else. Mixed tells me absolutely nothing about which languages are used. Other should only be used for languages that are not represented. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,750 |
| | Posted: | | | | Almost every film out there has multiple audio tracks and we list them in the order found on the disc. So what are we talking about here? I seem to be missing something. | | | | Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002. |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,879 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mreeder50: Quote:
Almost every film out there has multiple audio tracks and we list them in the order found on the disc. So what are we talking about here? I seem to be missing something. The films I'm talking about don't have multiple audio tracks. They have a single audio track in multiple languages. The Cakemaker, which is the example I'm referencing here, is in 3 - Hebrew, German and English (5.1 DTS-HD MA, if you're curious). It's not the only one in my collection like this. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield | | | | Last edited: by Danae Cassandra |
| | Registered: February 8, 2011 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,220 |
| | Posted: | | | | What language is the track according to the disc info?
If I had to chose I would take the most spoken language, but I could live with a mixed track (if it would be available) For mixed another language should be spoken 10% just like color is handled. |
| | Registered: June 20, 2007 |  Posts: 85 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mreeder50: Quote:
Almost every film out there has multiple audio tracks and we list them in the order found on the disc. So what are we talking about here? I seem to be missing something. For some unknown reason it is asked what audio language it is when a movie has different languages in the movie itself. Like on WW2 Movies where the germans actually speak german (at least on some points) or the few german sentences of the bad guys in Die Hard etc. I personally do not see the point trying to cover that stuff as it is already classified as (for example) english audio track on the disc... | | | | Last edited: by Wolfpig |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with T!M. Use the "main" language if there is one (so not Mixed or Other for a Star Trek movie with some Klingon in it), use "Other" if it really is a mix of languages, with substantial parts in more than one language. Of course it may be difficult to establish what "substantial" means. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | @Wolfpig: No, it is not about films, where another language is spoken in a background situation or in an interview.
There are films which use multiple languages as an art form and/or to express (cultural) isolation. One example popping up: Museum Hours (US UPC 881164-0007509)
Others (though I don't know exactly, if they in fact mixed language, without rewatching them): Lost in Translation (German EAN 4-011976-821861), Syriana (German EAN 7-321983-000089) or Les femmes du 6ème étage (German EAN 4-010324-038319)...
... and if you take a look at the back cover of Museum Hours, you won't find a language description, but an extra feature called Alternate English Voice Over Track - the film was inteded as multi language feature, while the English voice over was only added for marketing purposes... | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) | | | | Last edited: by AiAustria |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,750 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Danae Cassandra: Quote:
The films I'm talking about don't have multiple audio tracks. They have a single audio track in multiple languages. The Cakemaker, which is the example I'm referencing here, is in 3 - Hebrew, German and English (5.1 DTS-HD MA, if you're curious). It's not the only one in my collection like this. So what you are saying is, you don't pick an audio track, it just plays and at various points switches to another language? Does it have subtitles in English when they are speaking Hebrew or German? | | | | Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002. |
| | Registered: June 20, 2007 | | Posts: 85 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting AiAustria: Quote:
@Wolfpig: No, it is not about films, where another language is spoken in a background situation or in an interview.
It does not really matter if it is just a small part of a movie or not, it was just to clarify the general direction which was meant. If you have a film of 90 minutes runtime and every 30 minutes the spoken language would change then that should not matter or override the language selection (or the actual named language track) from the disc. But hey, in the end to do that it would not be worse as to plainly copy other profiles (either from dvdp, imdb etc.), add stuff in the profiles because they can (im asking myself always why people add something like sony music into the publishers of a disc just because they are somewhere written on the backcover) and other stuff like that. |
| | Registered: October 4, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 330 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Danae Cassandra: Quote:
Quoting mreeder50:
Quote:
Almost every film out there has multiple audio tracks and we list them in the order found on the disc. So what are we talking about here? I seem to be missing something.
The films I'm talking about don't have multiple audio tracks. They have a single audio track in multiple languages. The Cakemaker, which is the example I'm referencing here, is in 3 - Hebrew, German and English (5.1 DTS-HD MA, if you're curious). It's not the only one in my collection like this. I still don't understand this. If you look at the display/info/etc., what does it say for the language? I would just use that. Am I missing something because I feel like I am? | | | | Last edited: by primetime21 |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,879 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mreeder50: Quote:
Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
The films I'm talking about don't have multiple audio tracks. They have a single audio track in multiple languages. The Cakemaker, which is the example I'm referencing here, is in 3 - Hebrew, German and English (5.1 DTS-HD MA, if you're curious). It's not the only one in my collection like this.
So what you are saying is, you don't pick an audio track, it just plays and at various points switches to another language? Does it have subtitles in English when they are speaking Hebrew or German? Yes, these sorts of films switch between languages in the film, with the entire film being subtitled. I've been using The Cakemaker as the example, since it's the film I have to make a profile for, but I have over 30 films like this in my collection. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | Looking at the IMDB listing for this movie it shows the following towards the bottom of the page. Quote:
Country
Israel Germany
Language
Hebrew German English Also under Trivia it has that it is an: Quote:
Official submission of Israel for the 'Best Foreign Language Film' category of the 91st Academy Awards in 2019. So it would seem that English isn't the primary language. And perhaps the Plot Summary would help here. Quote:
Thomas, a young and talented German baker, is having an affair with Oren, an Israeli married man who dies in a car crash. Thomas travels to Jerusalem seeking answers. Keeping his secret for himself, he starts working for Anat, his lover's widow, who owns a small café. Although not fully kosher and despised by the religious, his delicious cakes turn the place into a city attraction. Finding himself involved in Anat's life in a way far beyond his anticipation, Thomas will stretch his lie to a point of no return. Written by Film Base Berlin So now we can see that it's likely the two main languages is German and Hebrew. Perhaps since it appears that the film could mostly take place in Israel, that Hebrew maybe the prominent language. Just assuming here. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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