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WOW on the cast features
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
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Tim:

Anybody but IMDb, how AMG or TCMDb if we are insistent on using a third party. I simply can't trust their data for accuracy for any purpose, too much allowance for user preference there.

Skip


I will reiterate one more time.  Accuracy in the "Common Name" is irrelevant.  Only consistent use in every profile matters.  It does not matter what we standardize on.
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Unicus69:
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Quoting T!M:
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I repeat: let's not try to re-invent the wheel here. Let's just use the IMDb name as the baseline and allow for users to prove, on a case by case basis if issues come up, that IMDb is wrong on a certain 'common name' choice.


I understand what you are saying T!M but we definately need Ken to sign off on this first.  If he decides, as he did over at IVS, that IMDb is not to be used, there is no point in even discussing it.


If I am not mistaken, Ken's problem with IMDb in the past was the wholesale copying of cast and crew lits into DVDP.  Using them as a reference does not seem to me like it owuld be a problem, but you are correct; Ken would have to bless that method.
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting lyonsden5:
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Quoting Rifter:
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No, it won't.  IMDB can't be trusted.  Period.  If they get anything right, it's by accident!  I would go along with using TCMdb, however.  To date, I haven't found any errors in their data, and they don't get anything from IMDB.


Any "other" site will be user built so it will always have some percentage of errors. The Dbs at IVS and Invelos currently have many errors.

IMO the better known the site is and the larger the site is the better the chance the users will know of it and know their way around it to get the information we want. IMDb certainly fits those requirements.

We also need to make sure where ever we use there is a large Db of TV shows and their actors included. A quick check of TCMdb shows no TV series. I did find some TV Movies but not the series themselves. I searched for "All in the Family" "Sledge Hammer" and "Lost". One classic, one more obscure and one currently popular show and found nothing.


Not only that, but Invelos has already given 'tacit' approval to IMDb by including a link to them right in one of their menus.
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting m.cellophane:
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In that case, I'll reveal that I like Voltaire's idea.  (from the pinned thread):

Quoting Voltaire53:
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Much as I fear to say it would it not be the most consistent approach that the 'core' name is the one used by <gulp> IMDb?

This approach is probably the simplest one, but besides potential legal problems, the normalized IMDb name of an person is not as stable as we would like it. IMDb has the possibility to change a person's name and update all the links automatically.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting RHo:
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This approach is probably the simplest one, but besides potential legal problems, the normalized IMDb name of an person is not as stable as we would like it. IMDb has the possibility to change a person's name and update all the links automatically.

True, but these issues could be discussed in the manner that was previously suggested: we could have a separate sub-forum for "common name" debating, where we could discuss such issues on a case-by-case basis.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantCool_doodad
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
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I am not the one saying it is about me, unicus.And thank you again for the earlier help. Everybody else seems to want to make it about me. Speaking for myself I want to see a solution that is Profiler's answer and is NOT dependent on ANYONE else, pick your poison IMDb, AMG TCMDb or whoever. I can only saying that I am poring over the problem here in hopes of coming up with a Eureka moment, I would also be more than happy to see someone else come up with it. I am willing to support anything that 1) makes sense and 2) does not depend on some other source to work, but nothing has been thrown out there that meets those criteria...yet.<fingers crossed>

Stop trying to make it about me and therefore wasting valuable space. I don't have anything close to the ego that you seem to believe I have, in fact, I am not even certain I have an ego. It is not my worry who comes up with the answer as long as we find it.

I noticed you used I, Unicus. I could always refer to yself in the third person.

Skip


If it's not about you, then why does the idea have to be approved by you for it to be a good idea. I mean, what makes you qualified? I know this is going to sound bad, but there's no way else to put it. How long did it take you to understand the concept of the "common name"? I'm still having my doubts that you do understand it.
I don't see anything wrong with using IMDb data, because even if it's wrong, it won't be shown in the credits because the credited as field will be shown instead. But it will be consistanty wrong while allowing the actor linking to work. It's nothing but a glorified key we just need a standard and useable way to input it. The linking would work exactly the same way if we gave a unique number to each and every actor, but that would be completely unusable.
The Other DVD Forum
Why do people who know the least know it the loudest?
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorlyonsden5
Hello old friends!
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting tlevel:
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The linking would work exactly the same way if we gave a unique number to each and every actor, but that would be completely unusable.


I'm a big fan of 147K-6539Q's work but his (or is it her) last film was a bit disappointing. 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
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Quoting RHo:
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This approach is probably the simplest one, but besides potential legal problems, the normalized IMDb name of an person is not as stable as we would like it. IMDb has the possibility to change a person's name and update all the links automatically.

True, but these issues could be discussed in the manner that was previously suggested: we could have a separate sub-forum for "common name" debating, where we could discuss such issues on a case-by-case basis.

I would see it the other way around. Most people (90% or more?) would have a natural common name, namely the only name used in their credits or the one used in most credits. Only few cast/crew member's common name would give some troubles. In those cases I would suggest to use IMDb as a guide line (and only as a guide line) to get a useful common name. The forum could solve the really hard cases.

Keep in mind that IMDb names are not only as stable as we wish, but they also do not help in parsing the name into the relevant first name, last name, middle name fields. Discussions a la Bonham Carter will still show up.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpompel9
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Using IMDb to "Common names" is a good idea. Everyone (Note: Most) users know of this site.
And it really doesn't matter what the name is, it's just a link.
I think the "problem" is overrated. I am certain that we can find a way that most users (The ones frequently in the forum) can agree about.

Let's work together and find the solution

Now i have said my opinion, and I respecfully ask that I won't be attacked because of this.

Peace
 Last edited: by pompel9
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Rifter:
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Quoting m.cellophane:
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IMDb Statistics Page

IMDb lists 281,957 AKA names in their database. Let's please not start a thread and have to vote and agree on common names for potentially that many actors and crew.

If we use the IMDb name as the baseline and allow for users to prove, on a case by case basis if issues come up, that IMDb is wrong on a certain 'common name' choice, that should cover it.



No, it won't.  IMDB can't be trusted.  Period.  If they get anything right, it's by accident!  I would go along with using TCMdb, however.  To date, I haven't found any errors in their data, and they don't get anything from IMDB.

TCMdb is R1-centric. I just tested their data with a Bollywood title of mine and it doesn't work.

Quoting richierich:
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How would we get this list - I looked on the site but couldn't see an actual list of the common names in use?

IMDb.com is "the list."

Quoting T!M:
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Quoting RHo:
Quote:
This approach is probably the simplest one, but besides potential legal problems, the normalized IMDb name of an person is not as stable as we would like it. IMDb has the possibility to change a person's name and update all the links automatically.

True, but these issues could be discussed in the manner that was previously suggested: we could have a separate sub-forum for "common name" debating, where we could discuss such issues on a case-by-case basis.

Agreed. Let's discuss the exceptions rather than all of them.

Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
True, but these issues could be discussed in the manner that was previously suggested: we could have a separate sub-forum for "common name" debating, where we could discuss such issues on a case-by-case basis.

I would see it the other way around. Most people (90% or more?) would have a natural common name, namely the only name used in their credits or the one used in most credits. Only few cast/crew member's common name would give some troubles. In those cases I would suggest to use IMDb as a guide line (and only as a guide line) to get a useful common name. The forum could solve the really hard cases.

Agree. I think we're saying the same thing now?

Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Keep in mind that IMDb names are not only as stable as we wish, but they also do not help in parsing the name into the relevant first name, last name, middle name fields. Discussions a la Bonham Carter will still show up.

Name parsing is a whole 'nuther discussion!

Quoting pompel9:
Quote:
I think the "problem" is overrated.

Indeed! I agree.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantFredLooks
phpDVDProfilerDude D5/7/2
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Just to poke the conversation in a whole new direction

Has anyone else noticed that the "First Middle Last"/"Last, First Middle" switch in Options no longer affects the display of cast/crew members anywhere (that I've found) except in the left-hand editing window? Unlike in 2.5, the primary display doesn't change. Perhaps this is a bug, but I wonder, given that "Credited As" has no first/last data.

So, if the only purpose of first/middle/last is to make it easier (!?!) to find a master name (although the search doesn't seem to care and there are enough actors that search is the only way to go), one wonders if perhaps removing the distinctions in the names, which would remove the need to parse, might be an idea whose time has come ...
-fred
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantonebyone
Registered: March 13, 2007
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 Last edited: by onebyone
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