Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

  Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next
TV child profiles (Locked)
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwhispering
On ne passe pas!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 1,380
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
Quoting RossRoy:
Quote:
What I'd like to see is a hybrid of both method. I know, I know, there's going to be all those "what about database consistency and redundancy and what not", but still.

If people want child profiles for TV Series (and boxsets, in my opinion), so be it, but those that don't want them should still have a full profile available in the online for the master. So what if some data is repeated from the master to the childs? And it's also a heck of a lot easier to remove data, then enter it.

Anyways, I've not sent any TV Season/Series and/or Boxsets exactly because of this child profile issue, which is still as vague as it's ever been.


This is what i do, i'll let the "I want only 1 profile" people have their data, but i contribute boxset content, and will continue to do so, and will continue to vote 'no' on every contribution that removes them, untill the rules say "Do not enter box set content for TV series".
 Last edited: by whispering
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
Quoting Boykin:
Quote:
I KNOW THIS IS NOT PER THE RULES, AND I WILL NOT BE SUBMITTING THEM. 

They way I have been handling TV sets and the way I plan to continue, is to have a main profile for the slipcase and then child profiles for each keepcase or thincase in the slipcase regardless of the number of disc in each thincase.  If there are 2 disc in the thincase, I use only one child profile for that thincase.  This just makes it easier for me to keep up with and mark as loaned if I lone it out to a friend.  With the divider in 3.0, I can divide each episode and each disc.  Example Stargate Atlantis or Battlestar Galactica. 

For Digipak, I have one profile with all the disc listed in the disc section of the profile.  Example Lost.



I don't get the idea behind ONE profile if there is two discs in the keep case.  Each disc has its own ID, why bury one of them inside a profile of the other one?
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnuoyaxin
prev. known as ya_shin
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Taiwan, Province of China Posts: 3,427
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collection
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
I don't get the idea behind ONE profile if there is two discs in the keep case.  Each disc has its own ID, why bury one of them inside a profile of the other one?

Because it's actually against the Rules...?
Achim [諾亞信; Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative)
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
Quoting whispering:
Quote:

This is what i do, i'll let the "I want only 1 profile" people have their data, but i contribute boxset content, and will continue to do so, and will continue to vote 'no' on every contribution that removes them, untill the rules say "Do not enter box set content for TV series".


Apparently the fact that the Rules specifically define that boxset rules are only to be used for multi-year TV Sets, is irrelevant to you (and a few others).
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting whispering:
Quote:

This is what i do, i'll let the "I want only 1 profile" people have their data, but i contribute boxset content, and will continue to do so, and will continue to vote 'no' on every contribution that removes them, untill the rules say "Do not enter box set content for TV series".


Apparently the fact that the Rules specifically define that boxset rules are only to be used for multi-year TV Sets, is irrelevant to you (and a few others).


And, as you have been told repeatedly, there is no functional difference between a movie boxset and a TV series season, EXCEPT the length of the individual films.

In fact, I've got a movie boxset that is bloody identical in layout to a TV series season set.  It contains 20 John Wayne MOVIES on 4 DVDs in a keepcase.  They have to be done the exact same way because of the the layout.  If you didn't see any titles, you wouldn't be able to tell which one is movie and which one is TV.  As I said, NO FUNCTIONAL DIFFERENCE!  The current rules are simply wrong.

The new rules we worked up for 2.5 would have addressed this and eliminated most of the controversy.  I'm sad to see Ken hasn't included those changes in the intial rules for 3.0.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
And as as been pointed out to you on numerosus occassions it does not matter how you interpret the difference.

The Rules define the handling of Boxsets (more than one MOVIE) and TV Sets differently.

If Invelos intended for them to be handled the same way, they would not have different Rules defined for them.
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
I don't see anything in the Rules supporting your interpretation, hal. There is NO prohibition from including Boxset data. You want to operate off the Master Proifile that is fine, I think it winds up with a massive amount Cast and Crew data that is difficult to assimilate. Operating of the Child or in some cases Grandchild(When we get them) will make the data more manageable. So you get to do it YOUR way and providing Boxset data allows for thos of us who wish to go another to accomplish the same objective. Everybody wins.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,193
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
The new rules we worked up for 2.5 would have addressed this and eliminated most of the controversy.  I'm sad to see Ken hasn't included those changes in the intial rules for 3.0.


I am actually glad he didn't include those changes.  They are so outdated that it would have been a huge step backwards.  People were already used to the current rules so it was a good idea to let them continue with them.  As Ken said in another post, we can address any concerns and revise the rules as issues are identified.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,193
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
I don't see anything in the Rules supporting your interpretation, hal.


Note: In rare cases where multiple Complete TV Series are packaged together, the Box-set rules can be applied, treating each series like a single film - applying the above rules for it’s individual profile.

That is the ONLY place in the rules where it says TV Sets can be treated like Box Sets.  This is a conditional rule.  If the TV Set matches this 'rare case', then it can be treated like a Box Set profile.  If it doesn't, then it can't.

Quote:
There is NO prohibition from including Boxset data. You want to operate off the Master Proifile that is fine, I think it winds up with a massive amount Cast and Crew data that is difficult to assimilate. Operating of the Child or in some cases Grandchild(When we get them) will make the data more manageable. So you get to do it YOUR way and providing Boxset data allows for thos of us who wish to go another to accomplish the same objective. Everybody wins.


While I agree with you in theory, you can't say that your position is supported by the rules.  The fact that we now have a 'divider feature' seems to indicate that a 'master profile', with divided cast and crew, was the direction Ken wanted to go.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
I don't see anything in the Rules supporting your interpretation, hal.


Note: In rare cases where multiple Complete TV Series are packaged together, the Box-set rules can be applied, treating each series like a single film - applying the above rules for it’s individual profile.

That is the ONLY place in the rules where it says TV Sets can be treated like Box Sets.  This is a conditional rule.  If the TV Set matches this 'rare case', then it can be treated like a Box Set profile.  If it doesn't, then it can't.

Quote:
There is NO prohibition from including Boxset data. You want to operate off the Master Proifile that is fine, I think it winds up with a massive amount Cast and Crew data that is difficult to assimilate. Operating of the Child or in some cases Grandchild(When we get them) will make the data more manageable. So you get to do it YOUR way and providing Boxset data allows for thos of us who wish to go another to accomplish the same objective. Everybody wins.


While I agree with you in theory, you can't say that your position is supported by the rules.  The fact that we now have a 'divider feature' seems to indicate that a 'master profile', with divided cast and crew, was the direction Ken wanted to go.



Thanks Unicus, but you are wasting your breath.  I have cited that specific section of the Rules for Skip over and over and over and yet he still makes a post that says that the Rules do not prohibit adding boxset contents to single season TV Sets.

Do the Rules say specifically "Do not enter boxset contents in single season TV Set parent profiles"?  No.  But they also don't say to not enter boxset contents into multi-disc single movie editions (which could certainly be done if someone wanted to).  The Rules do say that Boxset Rules can only be applied to TV sets containing multiple seasons of a TV series.  Implicit in that statement is that you may not apply Boxset Rules to single season TV Sets.  The only place that directs you to enter Boxset contents is the section of the Rules specifically for Boxsets.

It won't matter to Skip how many times you repeat this, he will continue to contribute according to his own personal preference!
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKevin Coed
Registered: March 14, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 278
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collection
I agree with Hal and Unicus on this, but... (of course there's a 'but') I own at least three tv series boxsets that should be an exception to this (and can think of many more that would qualify). The UK dvd releases that I own of Auf Weidersehen Pet series 1, series 2 and my set of Friends series 4 each comprise a slipcase that contains 3 keepcases/snappers that have their own individual EAN number and are/were also available for individual purchase. Packages like this should, and will, have seperate child profiles.
Guns don't kill people. Hammers do.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
I don't see anything in the Rules supporting your interpretation, hal.


Note: In rare cases where multiple Complete TV Series are packaged together, the Box-set rules can be applied, treating each series like a single film - applying the above rules for it’s individual profile.

That is the ONLY place in the rules where it says TV Sets can be treated like Box Sets.  This is a conditional rule.  If the TV Set matches this 'rare case', then it can be treated like a Box Set profile.  If it doesn't, then it can't.

Quote:
There is NO prohibition from including Boxset data. You want to operate off the Master Proifile that is fine, I think it winds up with a massive amount Cast and Crew data that is difficult to assimilate. Operating of the Child or in some cases Grandchild(When we get them) will make the data more manageable. So you get to do it YOUR way and providing Boxset data allows for thos of us who wish to go another to accomplish the same objective. Everybody wins.


While I agree with you in theory, you can't say that your position is supported by the rules.  The fact that we now have a 'divider feature' seems to indicate that a 'master profile', with divided cast and crew, was the direction Ken wanted to go.



It isn't a rare case any more.  Almost all of the series that have been out for awhile can be gotten in multi-season sets.  Doing the profiles for those is no different, there's just more discs to do.  So, if the bigger can one can be a boxset, so can the single season.  It's like saying a bag of oranges are oranges, but a single orange is a peach otherwise.

If you agree in theory, why in hell aren't you trying to help convince Ken to amend the rules as I suggested?
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,193
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
It isn't a rare case any more.  Almost all of the series that have been out for awhile can be gotten in multi-season sets.  Doing the profiles for those is no different, there's just more discs to do.  So, if the bigger can one can be a boxset, so can the single season.  It's like saying a bag of oranges are oranges, but a single orange is a peach otherwise.


You seem to be misunderstanding the rule.  The rule doesn't say anything about multi-season sets.  It says multiple Complete TV Series packaged together...notice it says SERIES, not SEASON.  As an example...The complete Space Above and Beyond packaged with the complete Surface and the complete Firefly.  That is what the rule is talking about.  You are talking oranges, the rule is talking fruit salad.

Quote:
If you agree in theory, why in hell aren't you trying to help convince Ken to amend the rules as I suggested?


Two separate issues.  First, I follow the current rules not a proposed rule change.  As for trying to convince Ken to amend the rules as suggested, I already covered that.  Those revisions are already a year out of date.  We have a new program and should suggest revisions based on what we have, not what we thought we were going to get.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:

You seem to be misunderstanding the rule.  The rule doesn't say anything about multi-season sets.  It says multiple Complete TV Series packaged together...notice it says SERIES, not SEASON.



Unicus, I believe you are misinterpreting this section AND it is very poorly worded.  The word "Series" is also used (especially in the UK and elsewhere) to mean what we know as a Season in the U.S.

What you are suggesting doesn't make very much sense.  Why would totally different "Complete Series" be packaged together?  All of X-files with all of Friends with all of Cheers.  I don't know about you, but I've never seen that done.

This part of the Rules is referring to packaging all of the individual complete seasons (or series if you're British) and selling the Complete TV Series (multiple years) as a single unit, but with individual seasons still within the bigger package.

The Rule then goes on to say to treat each of the individual seasons as a "film" and add them to the "Complete Series" boxset as if they were films.

As I said this was very poorly worded, and I can see how it could be interpreted as you have.  Either way, it does not allow for a single season of a TV Set to be treated as a boxset, and therefore adding boxset contents to them is a violation of the Current Rules.

And believe me, John, we've been trying to get updates made to the Rules for going on two years!
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,193
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:

Unicus, I believe you are misinterpreting this section AND it is very poorly worded.  The word "Series" is also used (especially in the UK and elsewhere) to mean what we know as a Season in the U.S.


I was going by the US interpretation.  But I will take your word for it and look at it as a multi-season set.

It says to treat each season as a SINGLE profile...one master profile for the entire season.  What John wants to do is treat each season as a Box Set.  This would cause problems for people who do buy multi-season sets as this format would require a Box Set withing a Box Set...which the program can't handle.

Quote:
What you are suggesting doesn't make very much sense.  Why would totally different "Complete Series" be packaged together?  All of X-files with all of Friends with all of Cheers.  I don't know about you, but I've never seen that done.


Never said it made sense...but I was thinking more along the lines of series that lasted only a single season.

Quote:
As I said this was very poorly worded, and I can see how it could be interpreted as you have.  Either way, it does not allow for a single season of a TV Set to be treated as a boxset, and therefore adding boxset contents to them is a violation of the Current Rules.


Not to mention the potential problem for people that do buy the complete series in a single set.  How are they to add the profiles to their set if those individual seasons are box sets?  The program can't handle that.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwhispering
On ne passe pas!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 1,380
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collection
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Apparently the fact that the Rules specifically define that boxset rules are only to be used for multi-year TV Sets, is irrelevant to you (and a few others).


Why would the box set area say on the credits "For additional information on handling of TV Series type releases see the TV series section." if we shouldnt add them? The rules say nothing about multi-year TV sets, at least i couldnt find any such info. Other then the credits part the rules say nothing about TV series in the Box Set section.
  Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next