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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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song documentation? |
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| Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,878 |
| | Posted: | | | | What sort of documentation do you need to add a song writer?
I had been given to understand that with modern films, if the song does not have any "courtesy of" publication data, then it was written for the film. This is what I provided in my contribution notes, but it is apparently not good enough.
The movie in question is Creator and the song is "String Trio Rock" by Mark K. Cargill.
I did a quick search on it, and it's listed on imdb's page for the film, and a couple of reviews of the film. But if the lack of "courtesy of" publication data in the film credits isn't enough to show it's written for the film, then what is?
Thanks for the help. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield | | | | Last edited: by Danae Cassandra |
| | Registered: May 9, 2007 |  Posts: 1,536 |
| | Posted: | | | | A Yahoo search if "String Trio Rock" gives as the first entry that this is "a song by Mark K. Cargill from the movie Creator", which appears to link the song to the movie, which obviously is a better indication than a link of the movie to the song. | | | | Hans |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | The lack of a "courtesy of" doesn't absolutely guarantee it was written for the film, but it's highly likely that that's the reason. Without any evidence to the contrary I would accept the lack of "courtesy of" as documentation no problem - from you, anyway.  PS. The contrary is also true, the inclusion of a "courtesy of" doesn't mean it wasn't written for the film. |
| | Registered: September 30, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,805 |
| | Posted: | | | | You gotta be careful with the whole courtesy of thing though... it's used, and not used, in different circumstances.
For example, in a modern film, the song Happy Birthday probably won't have a courtesy of tag attached to it, but we all know it's not specific for a film. If there's no one for the song to be of courtesy from, that's not going to appear (some classical works for example, hymns, lullabys etc etc).
On the exact opposite hand, if a song is original to the film and the only place the song appears is on the soundtrack, but the soundtrack is released by XXXXXXX, then the tag "courtesy from" could appear even under an original song.
It's really not a reliable indicator at all I find anymore. Generally if I'm adding a song writer, I gotta do the leg work and find out when it was recorded and where it first appeared.
IMDB is NOT a reliable source for this information (and I'm not one of those crazy people that subscribe to the theory that IMDB is a DVDProfiler wrecking piece of garbage). For example, if you check out the soundtrack for Burlesque... there at the very bottom of the soundtrack page is Ray of Light by Madonna. A song released on her album from the same name back in 1998 (and is in fact a partial cover song with some new lyrics and new music). So don't go by IMDB.
The best place I seem to have found at this point is allmusic.com.
But even they (despite their name) don't have everything listed. Sometimes it's really just up to doing some extra leg work. | | | | The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play. |
| | Registered: June 12, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,665 |
| | Posted: | | | | I assume nothing with the following exceptions:
1) Nominated for an Oscar as Best Original Song, then by definition it was written for the film
2) Written by someone starring in the film who isn't known for song writing (see Tommy Lee Jones for Under Siege)
3) If the song was released on the groups album close to simultaneously with the film.
And #3 is a gray area i only use with caution.
In all cases i use full documentation so voters can decide.
(And, i presume, the "courtesy of" thing won't work if the Film & Music company are related) | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
| | Registered: September 30, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,805 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's funny this topic was started today. I just purchased the DVD Boomerang yesterday (Canadian locality) and am doing a full audit on it... and have been for the past hour and a half... the reason it's taking so long?? Verifying the originality of all the friggin' songs from the soundtrack!!!  I remember and know all the songs (Toni Braxton made her debut on the album, Boyz II Men's End of the Road which broke Elvis Presley's record for longest running #1 single at the time appears on the album) but can't for the life of me remember if they're original. I've found all I need through a combination of allmusic for the soundtrack album and a whole lot of wikipedia links (to the soundtrack album, pages for singles, pages for artists, pages for other albums that the songs appear on to see if they appeared there first). Turns out at least ten songs are original to the film and it's been a bitch to research. And just for the record, these specific original songs do NOT have "courtesy of" appearing in the credits. | | | | The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play. |
|   | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote:
I assume nothing with the following exceptions:
1) Nominated for an Oscar as Best Original Song, then by definition it was written for the film
2) Written by someone starring in the film who isn't known for song writing (see Tommy Lee Jones for Under Siege)
3) If the song was released on the groups album close to simultaneously with the film.
And #3 is a gray area i only use with caution.
In all cases i use full documentation so voters can decide.
(And, i presume, the "courtesy of" thing won't work if the Film & Music company are related) Indeed this is how I check the songs as well. Furthermore I always check the song writers on Wikipedia and Google (search string: [name song writer(s)] [song title(s)]). In many cases there are several links and a list of songs/discography with more info about the making of songs (including whether a song is written for a film). I include my findings in the notes. | | | | Cor |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,878 |
| | Posted: | | | | 1) I'm pretty sure Creator didn't get any nominations for awards.
2) Doesn't apply either
3) "String Trio Rock" doesn't appear to have been released on CD at all. There doesn't appear to have been a soundtrack release, and it doesn't appear on either of Mark Cargill's CDs that are listed on allmusic. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield |
| | Registered: September 30, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,805 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Danae Cassandra: Quote:
1) I'm pretty sure Creator didn't get any nominations for awards.
2) Doesn't apply either
3) "String Trio Rock" doesn't appear to have been released on CD at all. There doesn't appear to have been a soundtrack release, and it doesn't appear on either of Mark Cargill's CDs that are listed on allmusic. Yeah, I checked this one out too... it's a bit of a tougher case. However, and I didn't dig too much deeper, a simple google search seems to turn up at least five or six different results from the first three pages that indicate the song is originally from the movie. Just include a couple of those links in your submission notes. | | | | The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play. |
| | Registered: June 21, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,621 |
| | Posted: | | | | I was just going to add, search for the song and artist and see if it has any other release. If soundtrack only, there's a great chance it's written for the ST and original.
I've had a few hour audit wit hthese myself. New Jack City took about that long, and I knew what songs were new, it just took longer to find links to prove than to audit. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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