Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next
How do we deal with Blu-ray picture-in-picture video commentary?
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,733
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
As the topic says: how do we deal with Blu-ray picture-in-picture video commentary? As far as the "Features" section is concerned, I assume we tick the "Commentary" checkbox and the "Picture-in-Picture" one - no problem so far. But how we do we deal with the audio and subtitles section?

- In these cases, the commentary track isn't listed as one of the "regular" audio tracks. It's only listed as the special PiP-audio track, which, normally, we never include under "Audio Tracks". So do we include this one as an audio track? And if we do, then how do we enter it, exactly? Because these PiP-audio tracks are in the "DTS Express" format, which isn't available in DVD Profiler.

- Same for subtitles: the subtitles for this PiP-stream aren't part of the "regular" set of subtitles. Do we still tick the "Commentary" subtitle?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 3,004
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I'd just leave it out of the audio section.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,197
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
It's a special feature and we don't list audio tracks for special features. And I wouldn't tick the subtitle unless the commentary was available as a normal subtitle outside of the PiP feature.
First registered: February 15, 2002
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,201
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I agree with Ace and KinoNiki.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,733
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting KinoNiki:
Quote:
It's a special feature and we don't list audio tracks for special features.

Except that it's a commentary and we usually do list the audio track for that.

Quote:
And I wouldn't tick the subtitle unless the commentary was available as a normal subtitle outside of the PiP feature.

But it is available outside of the PiP-feature: although not selectable through the normal "Subtitles" menu, I can flick through the subtitles using the "Subtitle" button on my remote, and as such, I can watch the film without the PiP-stream on, but with it's subtitle stream.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
But it is available outside of the PiP-feature: although not selectable through the normal "Subtitles" menu, I can flick through the subtitles using the "Subtitle" button on my remote, and as such, I can watch the film without the PiP-stream on, but with it's subtitle stream.

Subtitles which can be selected with the "Subtitle" button (and audio tracks which can be selected with the "Audio" button) while playing the main feature should generally be profiled.

Of course there are exceptions: for example partial subtitles which translate the signs  seen in the film.
 Last edited: by RHo
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
I'd just leave it out of the audio section.


Yup
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,197
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting KinoNiki:
Quote:
It's a special feature and we don't list audio tracks for special features.

Except that it's a commentary and we usually do list the audio track for that.


We do list the audio tracks for audio commentaries. Which is why when I see such a listing I would expect to find a normal audio commentary, not a PiP video commentary that can't be listened to unless I select the PiP feature first. And even when a PiP feature is present, there might still be normal audio commentaries on the same disc (Alien for example.) Whenever the same information can mean different things it starts to be confusing. Do we really want to prevent people from knowing which type of commentary it is without checking the disc themselves? It seems better to me if the audio tracks remain reserved for audio commentaries, not secondary video features.

Quote:
Quote:
And I wouldn't tick the subtitle unless the commentary was available as a normal subtitle outside of the PiP feature.

But it is available outside of the PiP-feature: although not selectable through the normal "Subtitles" menu, I can flick through the subtitles using the "Subtitle" button on my remote, and as such, I can watch the film without the PiP-stream on, but with it's subtitle stream.


In that case I believe the subtitle commentary check box could be ticked. But again, it's not clear what it actually means. Is it a subtitled audio commentary? Is it a text only commentary? No, in this case it's a subtitled PiP commentary. I don't like it, but I believe it is allowed within the rules (of course they were written before PiP features existed so I don't know how much that actually means).

Maybe it's time the rules started to address these new features directly instead of trying to patch them into the existing rules for DVDs that don't even have secondary audio and video features.
First registered: February 15, 2002
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,733
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
That's indeed what I ended up submitting: I didn't include a "Commentary" audio track, but I did tick the "Commentary" subtitle stream.

Quoting KinoNiki:
Quote:
Maybe it's time the rules started to address these new features directly instead of trying to patch them into the existing rules for DVDs that don't even have secondary audio and video features.

Agreed!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,201
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
But it is available outside of the PiP-feature: although not selectable through the normal "Subtitles" menu, I can flick through the subtitles using the "Subtitle" button on my remote, and as such, I can watch the film without the PiP-stream on, but with it's subtitle stream.

Had you mentioned this in the OP, I am sure the answers would have been different.  While the rules are not specific, I treat subtitles the same as I do audio track...include them when they are selectable via the disc menu, the player's Audio Track selection button or Autoplay when the content is started.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwidescreenforever
Under A Double DoubleW
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Canada Posts: 5,491
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Can you make mention of this  feature in -  Other Features??
In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.

Terry
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributortweeter
I aim to misbehave
Registered: June 12, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,665
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting widescreenforever:
Quote:
Can you make mention of this  feature in -  Other Features??

I'd say no, since it can be covered by the Commentary (and/or PIP) check box. 

Per the Rules:  Use the Other free text box for Extras that do not have a specific indicator.
Bad movie?  You're soaking in it!
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next