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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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empty dividers used for spaces |
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| Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,878 |
| | Posted: | | | | Is it proper to use dividers to denote an empty space in the credits? This isn't addressed in the rules, but I thought that we weren't supposed to use dividers to indicate empty space.
Like, if the credits are (example):
Joe as Mr. X
Jen as Ms. Y
Bob as Mr. Z
Bea as Ms. A
The credits shouldn't be entered with an empty divider where that space is, right?
I just downloaded a profile with a lot of empty group dividers in the cast used to represent spaces in the credits, and removed them in my local, but I wanted to see what was the proper for the online. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield |
| | Registered: April 3, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,998 |
| | Posted: | | | | As far as i am aware we do not use empty dividers to recreate spaces in the cast credits |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Rules say : "Dividers allow the segregation of cast and crew into logical groupings. Wherever possible, these groupings should mirror the film credits." With what is bolded, I cannot say that using a group divider is forbidden to indicate empty space. An empty space is in fact a way to create a logical grouping in credits. My personal taste is to never use dividers. It is obvious that this sort of cosmetic feature is a door opened for people craving to contribute, and we have already many profiles polluted by those. That is why I think cosmetic features should remain local : Those who like them use them, those who don't like them are not obliged to remove them. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ninehours: Quote:
As far as i am aware we do not use empty dividers to recreate spaces in the cast credits Who is we? Not those who already contributed them, and saw their changes accepted... | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | As the rule also says, "Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast"," it seems fairly clear, to me, that they are not meant to be used this way. I would have no problem submitting the change. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
As the rule also says, "Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast"," it seems fairly clear, to me, that they are not meant to be used this way. I would have no problem submitting the change. such as... examples exclude nothing... We can say what we want here about interpretation, the fact is that group dividers are used for spaces in credits, and are accepted by screeners. People want, at a great majority, to have cosmetic features contributable, so we have to live with that. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
such as... examples exclude nothing... We can say what we want here about interpretation, the fact is that group dividers are used for spaces in credits, and are accepted by screeners. People want, at a great majority, to have cosmetic features contributable, so we have to live with that. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. You don't have to agree, and I am not trying to convince you but, as I said, it seems fairly clear to me. I should also point out that I have had contributions, removing those empty divider, accepted by the screeners so acceptance of them really doesn't prove anything...other than then screeners will accept both...so, no, I don't have to live with it. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
(...) it seems fairly clear, to me, that they are not meant to be used this way. I would have no problem submitting the change. As it is for me. If we start to fill the empty space that will be kind of weird, it's ok for a group but what is the point if there is nothing to regroup together  I just can't believe that Ken had said to use them for that or that it's written in the rules. We want to have the credit not reproduce the way they are shown on the screen. What will be the next level? Argumenting if one or two empty group dividers must be used if a space is larger. Seriously when something make no sense sometimes it's because it doesn't make sense... |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
You don't have to agree. Agree what ? I also do not want group dividers for spaces (in fact not for anything, I hate that feature for my local...). What I wrote is that rules do not forbid them for spaces, and that some contributors have already used them for spaces, and those changes have been accepted. It's a fact. Try pingponging as much you want to remove them, other contributors , who crave to contribute, will always find profiles to add them. So the database will have to live with them, except a change in present rules. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think James summarized it quite nicely here: Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
* Use Episode dividers for TV show episodes, distinct films, or other logical episodic distinction.
A gap is not an episode, distinct film or other logical episodic distinction.
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
Also use episode dividers for full cast division, such as "Japanese Voices".
A gap is not a full cast division, such as "Japanese Voices".
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
* Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast".
A gap is not a group role.
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
* "Cast", "In order of appearance" or other similar headers at the start of the credits should not be entered.
A gap is not similar to "Cast", "In order of appearance".
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
* Also use Group dividers for crew teams, included only if the crew meets the other listing requirements.
A gap is not a crew team.
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
The only header it lists to exclude is generic header at the start of the credits. If the credit has a subheader later on down in the credits stating "Introducing", I would say that is allowed by the current rules.
"Introducing" is not a subheader. It generally precedes one actor's name. It is not similar to "Cast" or "In order of appearance". Thanks to VirusPil for linking to the original thread. Saved me some time.  | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | While I must disagree with surfeur51 on the general use of dividers (I feel that they provide for a clean and organized listing), I do agree with him that blanks should not be used, but for different reasons. Dividers are integrated into more than just simple cast listing, they are also incorporated int the individual role listing for cast and crew. If you put blank divider in, the individual listing in the cast/crew window for will show a blank with a +/- next to it. You will have to open that up to see his role, even though there isn't any information in the first level.  So even though the rules may not specifically say not to, the way the program operates should guide us. So in my opinion, dividers should not be used for blanks (gaps) Charlie | | | | Last edited: by CharlieM |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,878 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thanks everybody! I'll go ahead and submit my correction (eliminating those gap dividers) then. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
You don't have to agree.
Agree what ? I also do not want group dividers for spaces (in fact not for anything, I hate that feature for my local...). What I wrote is that rules do not forbid them for spaces, And I wrote that I believe the rules don't allow them for blank spaces. In response, you offered a different opinion. To that, I said, you don't have to agree...meaning I don't expect you to agree with my opinion. Basically, since you aren't going to change my mind, and I am not going to change your's, let's just agree to disagree. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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