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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Capitalization (my bad) |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 5,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | Good day, Sirs,
I apologize, but I forgot how to handle capitals and small letters in credits.
1. List names exactly as they are in the credits.
2. Exception: If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules instead.
What if the credit is not entirely capitalized but all small letters? List as they are (1.) or use standard capitalization rules (2.) as well?
Does standard capitalization always means first letter capitalized? Are there more than one standard for capitalization, eg for foreign language names?
External sources do overrule the standard capitalization?
Is the Credit Lookup Tool case sensitive? Is the online profile database? Is the local profile database?
Can you have Aaaa Bbbb [ca AaAa BbBb] in a profile?
What happens again if you have the credit Aaaa Bbbb in some profiles and a contribution changes one profile to AaAa BbBb? The name won't change in your local database? Or every profile is affected by the name change?
Love, bbbbb | | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Please, give a real world example. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 5,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | These are questions in principle. | | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bbbbb: Quote:
Are there more than one standard for capitalization, eg for foreign language names?
Of course, there are several standards. For certain languages, you have to respect correct accentuation of small letters, unless you make huge spelling mistakes. For example, GERARD DEPARDIEU is Gérard Depardieu, not Gerard Depardieu, following French rules. Though a majority of users voted to use correct spelling, other prefer to create spelling mistakes specially for the Invelos online database, following Ken's wishes. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bbbbb: Quote:
What if the credit is not entirely capitalized but all small letters? List as they are (1.) or use standard capitalization rules (2.) as well? While not covered by the rules, just about everybody uses standard caps no matter the format of the credits. Quote:
Does standard capitalization always means first letter capitalized? Are there more than one standard for capitalization, eg for foreign language names? For English names, standard capitalization means first letter capitalized. My guess is, yes, there are different standards for non-english names. This is specifically mentioned for titles but, for some reason, not for names. Quote:
External sources do overrule the standard capitalization? Yes, external sources do overrule 'standard capitalization'. Quote:
Is the Credit Lookup Tool case sensitive? Is the online profile database? Is the local profile database? The CLT is not case sensitive. 'Danny Devito', 'DANNY DEVITO', 'Danny DeVito' & 'DaNnY DeViTo' will all bring up the same numbers and profiles. The online database and the local profile are...kinda. If the online profile has 'Danny DeVito' and you upload 'Danny Devito', the online profile will be changed. If you download the profile however, because you can't have both variations in your local, my understanding is that it will use whatever you have. Quote:
Can you have Aaaa Bbbb [ca AaAa BbBb] in a profile? Yes, but only in your local. If you try to upload that, it will be ignored. Quote:
What happens again if you have the credit Aaaa Bbbb in some profiles and a contribution changes one profile to AaAa BbBb? The name won't change in your local database? Or every profile is affected by the name change? As I said above, my understanding is that you will keep what you have in your local. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | | Last edited: by VirusPil |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
For the special case Surfeur mentioned, have a look at this and the linked thread:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=430575&PageNum=3&messageID=1178219#M1178219 The problem is that Ken's position "Unfortunately, in most cases there is not definitive source for the actor's name, and in many cases the name changes over time" is totally wrong for non US actors. In case of Gérard Depardieu whom I took as an example, we can find on the net hundreds of sources about his real name, and though he played in 170 movies, he never changed his name. I can give examples for more than 1000 actors with accented names that are wrongly entered in dvdprofiler. | | | | Images from movies |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,733 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
I can give examples for more than 1000 actors with accented names that are wrongly entered in dvdprofiler. Similarly, I can give examples for more than 1000 actors with non-accented names that are "wrongly" entered in dvdprofiler. It's just that "wrongly" depends on your point of view. And for DVD Profiler purposes, we're not necessarily after "real" or "correct" names. Apparently, that causes you to feel they're "wrong" on occasion, but they're not. They're not "wrong" because you feel that they are, or because it can be documented that their "real" name is different - instead they're only "wrong" when they aren't entered per DVD Profiler's standards and rules. It really is no more difficult than that. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well said, Tim. I have tried to explain exactly that to Yves for years and he just refuses to get it. If the name is On Screen without accents, Yves, then what you believe IS is up to you locally. The data is what it is, and the Rules for handling the data are clear...to paraphrase...list what you SEE not what you imagine or believe to be true. We are after credited data...not necessarily what you or I might believe to be "correct" or "real".
Yves seems to believe that he possesses a unique ability to take the data and determine what is "real" or "correct" to HIS standards/. He does the ability, of course, to make those determinations....for himself, he does not have the ability to ignore the data and try to force his "real" or "correct" beliefs on the database and the rest of the world. Sorry Yves, like I said i have explained this to you for years, it is a very simple procedure, and it is a yard stick to measure data that I know you don't like, but it is the yardstick that we use and it is done for a reason, toprevent user interpretations and beliefs from corrupting the database. Simiularly for overviews, you can't correct what you believe are typos or poor grammatical usage...some ot the overviews are clearly written by someone with about a third grade education in English...but it's the data. Your belief and your imagination are not data which are represented On Scree or on Back Cover, they exist in your head and they are real to YOU...but they are not the data. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
I can give examples for more than 1000 actors with accented names that are wrongly entered in dvdprofiler.
Similarly, I can give examples for more than 1000 actors with non-accented names that are "wrongly" entered in dvdprofiler. It's just that "wrongly" depends on your point of view. And for DVD Profiler purposes, we're not necessarily after "real" or "correct" names. Apparently, that causes you to feel they're "wrong" on occasion, but they're not. They're not "wrong" because you feel that they are, or because it can be documented that their "real" name is different - instead they're only "wrong" when they aren't entered per DVD Profiler's standards and rules. It really is no more difficult than that. 100% Agree with you on that Tim! | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Not that common name debate again  Am I the only one here who is able to do the change when he get a dvd from the database to fit his personal database criteria? I don't care if the names use are real or fictitious, since I change them anyway in my database... | | | | Last edited: by Jimmy S |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
- instead they're only "wrong" when they aren't entered per DVD Profiler's standards and rules. I totally agree, in a strict contributor's point of view. That is why, to answer to the OP's question, I wrote : Quoting Surfeur51: Quote:
Though a majority of users voted to use correct spelling, other prefer to create spelling mistakes specially for the Invelos online database, following Ken's wishes.. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 823 |
| | Posted: | | | | If onscreen credit is GERARD DEPARDIEU, per rules, the name should be entered as Gérard Depardieu, per rules. I don't see how any arguments to the contrary are valid unless/until the rules are changed. | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,733 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Grendell: Quote:
If onscreen credit is GERARD DEPARDIEU, per rules, the name should be entered as Gérard Depardieu, per rules. It's actually the exact opposite, no matter how many times you add the words "per rules" to your statement. It's just not true. Instead, per the rules, an on-screen credit of GERARD DEPARDIEU is to be entered as Gerard Depardieu - without accent. Here's Ken's statement on the matter: Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
If the character used in the all-caps name is "É", convert it to "é" as needed to create mixed case. If the character used in all-caps is "E", convert it to "e" as needed to create mixed case. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 823 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
no matter how many times you add the words "per rules" to your statement. It's just not true. The rules say "use standard capitalization rules." Perhaps that's the problem... it's too general of a statement. To me, when spelling "GERARD DEPARDIEU" using standard capitalization rules, it should be "Gérard Depardieu". Obviously surfeur51 is VERY vocal about this, and I can see why... his native language uses many accented characters in proper names. If "GERARD DEPARDIEU" should be entered as "Gerard Depardieu", then the rules REALLY should be fixed in their next update to include the statement you quoted from Ken. Personally I'm fine with that... just make clear in the rules what to enforce!  | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Tim is absolutely correct. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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