I'd like to propose a re-wording of the following rule:

Quote:
If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.

Because, to paraphrase a voter, it's a "stupid rule".

I understand it's there mainly for TV series where the main cast are credited in the opening credits and the secondary cast in the closing credits. But the problem is, it doesn't work for films. You end up with a situation where very small roles have to be put to the top of the cast list simply because they weren't added to the end credits.
I think it would work a lot better if the rule read like this instead:

Quote:
If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add all actors from the opening credits to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.

This would ensure that the main cast still get top billing, whether it's film or TV credits. What do you guys think?

Do you have an example where a small actor is only listed in the opening credits?

Top billed don't always get listed first anyway. What about credits listed in order of appearance, or alphabetical? This rule change would mess up that ordering.

Quoting northbloke:

Quote:
I understand it's there mainly for TV series where the main cast are credited in the opening credits and the secondary cast in the closing credits. But the problem is, it doesn't work for films. You end up with a situation where very small roles have to be put to the top of the cast list simply because they weren't added to the end credits.

Do you have an example where it does not work?

I have seen many films where the top billed actors are in the opening credits but not in the end credits (mostly non-Hollywood). But I haven't seen a single film yet, where a minor role has been listed with the top billed roles in the opening credits, and only the minor role has been left out in the end credits.

Or do you want a rule which would break up a sorted credit list (alphabetically or order of appearance) into something top billed before rest?

I would not want such a change because cast entry would be much more complicated for most films (with top billed in opening and all in end credits).

On the other hand I would support a program enhancement which would allow the top billed actors (credited twice in opening and end) to be marked specially (check mark for top billed). With that change the program could then display the list in "end credit" sorting or "top billed" sorting by user choice.

I know of 2 examples, though there may be more.

Diamonds Are Forever: Sid Haig and Marc Lawrence are both mentioned in the opening credits but not in the end credits. They're credited in the profile as Attendants.

Young Frankenstein, quite a few here:
John Madison as Villager
John Dennis as Orderly in Frankenstein's Class
Rick Norman as Villager
Rolfe Sedan as Train Conductor
Terrence Pushman as Villager
Randolph Dobbs as Third Villager (Joe)
Norbert Schiller as Emcee at Frankenstein's Show
Patrick O'Hara as Villager
Michael Fox as Villager
Lidia Kristen as Villager's Wife

I do like the idea of splitting the rule for TV cast and film cast. That seems a better and clearer way of doing it as it does deal with 2 different situations.

Quoting RHo:

Quote:
Or do you want a rule which would break up a sorted credit list (alphabetically or order of appearance) into something top billed before rest?

I would not want such a change because cast entry would be much more complicated for most films (with top billed in opening and all in end credits).

No it's got nothing to do with billing. What's currently happening is that people credited at the tail end of the opening credits are propelled to the top of the cast list simply because their credit isn't repeated in the end credits. To me, that's breaking up a sorted credit list!
I'm proposing a re-wording that would minimise this by listing everyone in opening credit order (in these situations only) before listing those found only in the end credits.

Quoting northbloke:

Quote:
I know of 2 examples, though there may be more.

Diamonds Are Forever: Sid Haig and Marc Lawrence are both mentioned in the opening credits but not in the end credits. They're credited in the profile as Attendants.

Young Frankenstein, quite a few here:
John Madison as Villager
John Dennis as Orderly in Frankenstein's Class
Rick Norman as Villager
Rolfe Sedan as Train Conductor
Terrence Pushman as Villager
Randolph Dobbs as Third Villager (Joe)
Norbert Schiller as Emcee at Frankenstein's Show
Patrick O'Hara as Villager
Michael Fox as Villager
Lidia Kristen as Villager's Wife

I do like the idea of splitting the rule for TV cast and film cast. That seems a better and clearer way of doing it as it does deal with 2 different situations.

OK, I have to have a look at the Young Frankenstein credits. But listing all names from the opening credits which are not repeated in the end credits would give different headaches for films with opening credits with the top billed actors and end credits with the rest. Many Bollywood credits work like this. And I believe I have seen it in many 'older' European films as well.

@Addicted,
That's fine by me too. I would support your earlier suggestion:

Quoting Addicted2DVD:

Quote:
In the standard section of Rules (Movies):
If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler after those taken from the end credits.

And add to the TV Section of the Rules:
If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.

Although I would have both paragraphs together in the Cast rules section.

Or maybe something like this:
If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before (for TV episodes/films) or after (for films/DTV releases) those taken from the end credits.

Edit: I see neither solution would work for RHo's Bollywood example. How about this instead?

Quote:
If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add all actors in the opening credits to the list in DVD Profiler before those that are only listed in the end credits.

@ mreeder50:
                    "SMACK"!

Rory


(Seriously tho, I like your idea.)

Rory