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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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De-Lovely "Musical Performers" Divider or not |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | Before the Cast are several people credited. The profile already lists them, but after the cast. I wish I could do a screen cap, but here is what the credits looks ike. Musical Performers "You're the Top" Cole Porter "It's De-Lovely" Robbie Williams "What Is This Thing Called Love?" Lemar "Let's Misbehave" Elvis Costello "Let's Do It, Let's Fall in Love" Alanis Morissette "Night and Day" John Barrowman "Anything Goes" Caroline O'Connor "Begin the Beguine" Sheryl Crow "I Love You" Mick Hucknall "Just One of Those Things" Diana Krall "Love for Sale" Vivian Green "So in Love" Lara Fabian and Mario Frangoulis "Ev'ry Time We Say Goodbye" Natalie Cole cast Cole Porter Kevin Kline Am I correct that these Musical Performers should be listed first in the cast? What about dividers? I was thinking something like. <Divider> "Musical Performers" <Divider> "Song Title" Performers name <Divider> "Song Title" Performers name and so on. Or just list the Musical Performers under just that divider alone <Musical Performers> Cole Porter Robbie Williams and so on |
|   | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 |  Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | According to these two rules the musical performers should be listed before the main end cast list.: Quote:
# If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.
# If a film has no end credits, but does have actors credited elsewhere, enter the actors from those credits. I would indeed add them as credited so it's mirroring the credits: <Divider> "Musical Performers" <Divider> "Song Title" Performers name <Divider> "Song Title" Performers name | | | | Cor |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,733 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
<Divider> "Musical Performers"
<Divider> "Song Title" Two dividers never work, though, since nesting isn't possible. As such, the people listed under here will only be attached to the "Song Title" divider, not to the "Musical Performers" one. So in this example, the "Musical Performers" divider serves no purpose whatsoever... It may look nice, but the fact of the matter is that an empty group, with no people associated with it, is not really a group... | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Corne:
Quote:
<Divider> "Musical Performers"
<Divider> "Song Title"
Two dividers never work, though, since nesting isn't possible. As such, the people listed under here will only be attached to the "Song Title" divider, not to the "Musical Performers" one. So in this example, the "Musical Performers" divider serves no purpose whatsoever...
It may look nice, but the fact of the matter is that an empty group, with no people associated with it, is not really a group... In that case I would only use the divider "Musical Performers". | | | | Cor |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am trying to figure out why they have been added, are they actors, it doesn't appear so based on the data. AS to the Musical Performances themselves, none of that Music was written for the movie, in fact quite the contrary, the movie was develioped around the musical talents of Cole Porter. This to me seems to be another situation like additional voices, "I can tell that they actors", when the Cast has a very clear delineation. So I am a little confused as to the validity of the "actors", it sounds to me more like they are merely contemporary singers making soundtrack appearances singing Cole Porter songs.
BUT if they are to be listed the Rules dictate that they would be first. I just have my doubts that they are part of the cast | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,414 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's been a while since I saw this, but as I recall these folks don't actually appear in the movie, just on the soundtrack. I'd agree with Skip that they're not cast and don't get a credit if that's correct. They'd be just like any other soundtrack artist.
If they do actually appear in the movie, though, then I guess the Musical Performers divider would be appropriate. | | | | "This movie has warped my fragile little mind." |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't own the film so this is only a guess, but how about this? <Divider>Musical Performers<Divider> name: Cole Porter, role: "You're the Top" name: Robbie Williams, role: "It's De-Lovely" and so on... Would that give us the information we need without breaking the rules? Also, are only their voices heard? In which case the voice box would also need to be ticked. Edit: as for whether they should be listed in the first place, I don't see why not. The film makers have obviously given them precedence over and above what you would normally find for people on the soundtrack, so that's enough for me. | | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Edit: as for whether they should be listed in the first place, I don't see why not. The film makers have obviously given them precedence over and above what you would normally find for people on the soundtrack, so that's enough for me. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, and ticking the "Voice only" box allows for it, too. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Indeed, when they are not in the actual film and you can only hear them sing it would be voice only. But did they really sing for the film or did the filmmakers just use their soundtracks? | | | | Cor |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
I don't own the film so this is only a guess, but how about this?
<Divider>Musical Performers<Divider>
name: Cole Porter, role: "You're the Top"
name: Robbie Williams, role: "It's De-Lovely"
and so on...
Would that give us the information we need without breaking the rules? Also, are only their voices heard? In which case the voice box would also need to be ticked.
Edit: as for whether they should be listed in the first place, I don't see why not. The film makers have obviously given them precedence over and above what you would normally find for people on the soundtrack, so that's enough for me. Here we go again with the "I can determine whether someone is Cast or not despite the FACT that they are not part of the Cast list designated by the filmmakers. Not only that we make a brazen statements about what the filmmakers intent was, I don't understand where that power comes from or what gives thta sort of prescience North, but they have a DEFINED cast list and these people are NOT part of it. Additionally these people do not APPEAR in the film, they are merely Musical Performers singing Cole Porter songs (non-original music) so they cannot be listed because (1) the music is not original to the film and (2) we do not track performers of music. So, this not only NOT Cast it is not even Crew and they should be removed. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
I don't own the film so this is only a guess, but how about this?
<Divider>Musical Performers<Divider>
name: Cole Porter, role: "You're the Top"
name: Robbie Williams, role: "It's De-Lovely"
and so on...
Would that give us the information we need without breaking the rules? Also, are only their voices heard? In which case the voice box would also need to be ticked.
Edit: as for whether they should be listed in the first place, I don't see why not. The film makers have obviously given them precedence over and above what you would normally find for people on the soundtrack, so that's enough for me.
Here we go again with the "I can determine whether someone is Cast or not despite the FACT that they are not part of the Cast list designated by the filmmakers. Not only that we make a brazen statements about what the filmmakers intent was, I don't understand where that power comes from or what gives thta sort of prescience North, but they have a DEFINED cast list and these people are NOT part of it. Additionally these people do not APPEAR in the film, they are merely Musical Performers singing Cole Porter songs (non-original music) so they cannot be listed because (1) the music is not original to the film and (2) we do not track performers of music.
So, this not only NOT Cast it is not even Crew and they should be removed. Indeed. It appears to be song credits and we don't track performers. We do track the song writers if they have written the song specifically for the film. | | | | Cor |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Additionally these people do not APPEAR in the film, they are merely Musical Performers singing Cole Porter songs (non-original music) so they cannot be listed because (1) the music is not original to the film and (2) we do not track performers of music.
So, this not only NOT Cast it is not even Crew and they should be removed. I mostly agree with you.  To me, it wouldn't matter if the music is original to the film or not. The unseen musical performers are not cast or crew regardless. Otherwise we'd have to list the Bee Gees as (voice) cast in Saturday Night Fever, for example. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan | | | | Last edited: by m.cellophane |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Tight, James. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Additionally these people do not APPEAR in the film, they are merely Musical Performers singing Cole Porter songs (non-original music) so they cannot be listed because (1) the music is not original to the film and (2) we do not track performers of music.
So, this not only NOT Cast it is not even Crew and they should be removed.
I mostly agree with you. To me, it wouldn't matter if the music is original to the film or not. The unseen musical performers are not cast or crew regardless. Otherwise we'd have to list the Bee Gees as (voice) cast in Saturday Night Fever, for example. If the Bee Gees were given a special credit, as these performers were, I don't see why not. This is the first time I have ever seen musical performers picked out like this, normally you find them buried among the song writers and publishers - in which case I wouldn't agree to their inclusion. But in this case we have a specific list of performers only (no writers or publishers) directly preceding the cast list. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
If the Bee Gees were given a special credit, as these performers were, I don't see why not. This is the first time I have ever seen musical performers picked out like this, normally you find them buried among the song writers and publishers - in which case I wouldn't agree to their inclusion.
But in this case we have a specific list of performers only (no writers or publishers) directly preceding the cast list. Some song performers are listed in the opening credits too. "Love Theme Composed by X and Performed by Y." List those too? Or just "Song Title Sung by X" in the opening credits. Are we only going to exclude buried performer credits? | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Additionally these people do not APPEAR in the film, they are merely Musical Performers singing Cole Porter songs (non-original music) so they cannot be listed because (1) the music is not original to the film and (2) we do not track performers of music.
So, this not only NOT Cast it is not even Crew and they should be removed.
I mostly agree with you. To me, it wouldn't matter if the music is original to the film or not. The unseen musical performers are not cast or crew regardless. Otherwise we'd have to list the Bee Gees as (voice) cast in Saturday Night Fever, for example.
If the Bee Gees were given a special credit, as these performers were, I don't see why not. This is the first time I have ever seen musical performers picked out like this, normally you find them buried among the song writers and publishers - in which case I wouldn't agree to their inclusion.
But in this case we have a specific list of performers only (no writers or publishers) directly preceding the cast list. They may have a "special type of credit", north BUT they are not part of the Cast very clearly, Nor are they permitted under Crew unsder the Rules, bottom line, they should NOT be in the Profile. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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