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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Common name / Correct spelling for jr./sr. |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: May 25, 2007 |  Posts: 453 |
| | Posted: | | | | Several times I try to clean up my profiles (and delete at least 200 actors from my personal database) because of several spellings of the same name. And as I can't find any rule for that, I open this thread:
So often there are Junioors or Seniors in mostly four different spellings:
(name is fiction)
John James Junior
John James Jr.
John James, Jr.
John James jr
I'd prefer any fixed rule to avoid all the different spellings, however the actor is credited! And I am sure a lot of you would appreciate to clarify this with one official rule to avoid thousands of questions for a common name of every Junior or Senior! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | There is already a filter in the system where we can only upload the "John James, Jr." version. But we are to use the "Credited As" for exactly as it is in the credits... so if the credits show John James Jr. we would have...
John James, Jr. [John James Jr.] | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: May 25, 2007 | | Posts: 453 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have to add a similar problem with the "" (inverted commas):
I read about Tommy "Tiny" Lister (jr.)
Sometimes he is credited as Tommy "Tiny" Lister, sometimes as Tommy 'Tiny" Lister
I couldn't find any rule for the inverted commas and so all the guys with a funny middle name become double because of those two different versions.
Can we find a rule if we use "XXX" or 'XXX' to separate the middle name? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | As I said in the last thread... we have to use the most commonly credited form per the CLT (Credit Look-up Tool on this site)... or prove it wrong with such a thread as the one for Gabby Hayes. So... if we found that Tommy "Tiny" Lister, Jr. is the most commonly per CLT or a Thread... and the credits says Tommy 'Tiny' Lister, Jr. Then it would be...
Tommy "Tiny" Lister, Jr. [Tommy 'Tiny' Lister, Jr.] As Role Name | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with Pete on all points. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: August 4, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,440 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Magmadrag: Quote:
I have to add a similar problem with the "" (inverted commas):
I read about Tommy "Tiny" Lister (jr.)
Sometimes he is credited as Tommy "Tiny" Lister, sometimes as Tommy 'Tiny" Lister
I couldn't find any rule for the inverted commas and so all the guys with a funny middle name become double because of those two different versions.
Can we find a rule if we use "XXX" or 'XXX' to separate the middle name? Here is the thread to find Tommy "Tiny" Lister common name. | | | | Updated List of Accepted Birth Years |
| | Registered: June 21, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,621 |
| | Posted: | | | | Even better, and I think this happened with Lister but it might've been a different person, but at least once I've found " marks which were actually 2 ' marks next to each other, making yet another entry.   Whatever imdb uses for quote marks, the common is 99% of the time the oppisite. If they have singles, common is double, they have double, common is single. I'll blindly bet on it I've encountered it so much.  |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,733 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bigdaddyhorse: Quote:
Even better, and I think this happened with Lister but it might've been a different person, but at least once I've found " marks which were actually 2 ' marks next to each other, making yet another entry. Personally, I would definitely enter '' as " - as far as I'm concerned there really is no need to foul up the CLT numbers even further with this...  |
| | Registered: May 25, 2007 | | Posts: 453 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
As I said in the last thread... we have to use the most commonly credited form... Well, rules are always good and maybe I am thinking too much, but for me it is easier to create rules which don't need to change: Just imagine my "John James Jr." - He is credited in 20 movies, 15 of them with that spelling, 5 as "John James, Jr." (the last 5). So actually the most commonly credit would be "John James Jr." and only for the 5 others I need the information "credited as 'John James, Jr.' But then he makes another 20 movies - now all as 'John James, Jr.' - and we would have to change the 20 first profiles! Or another alternative: He has done 20 movies but only the last 5 are released on DVD/BluRay yet. Those five are all with 'John James, Jr.' - and so there is no "credited as". But then the other 15 are released also, and so the most common credit changes to 'John James Jr.' - and the other profiles would have to be modified. Do you know what I mean? That's the reason why I thought to find one RULE, if there has to be a KOMMA before jr./sr. or if it is 'jr.' or 'Jr.' or 'Jr' and if everyone could live with this rule, there would never be any neccessity again to check how often the name is spelled which way. And so there won't come work to change this name in the database several times. Let me know what you think about this! |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Magmadrag: Quote:
But then he makes another 20 movies - now all as 'John James, Jr.' - and we would have to change the 20 first profiles! Although in the case of John James, Jr. we do have a constant - we must use the comma, that filter overrides the common name rule - you have hit upon the fundamental flaw of the common name system: that the common name can change over time. There have been a variety of threads about this problem, some suggesting alternatives to the common name, some requesting a change to the way the names are linked, but until an alternative is released by Invelos we pretty much have to live with it unfortunately. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Right... as I said in my very first post we already have a standard filter for the comma or no comma thing. And for capitalization the rules states to use standard capitalization... plus the system don't recognize a difference between upper and lower case differences only. So that is not a worry either. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Jr./Sr. is the one type of name you never have to think about.
If it is Cuba Gooding, Jr., that is what you enter.
If it is Cuba Gooding Jr., that is what you enter. The filter will create the common name.
For capitalization, because the rule say to use 'standard capitalization', the 'J' in Jr., and the 'S' in Sr., will always be a capital.
That being said, I agree with North on his other points. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,733 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Jr./Sr. is the one type of name you never have to think about. Indeed. Quote:
If it is Cuba Gooding, Jr., that is what you enter. Indeed. Quote:
If it is Cuba Gooding Jr., that is what you enter. The filter will create the common name. Almost agreed. Sure, that is a possibility, and indeed, Invelos filter will bring this back as "Cuba Gooding, Jr. [Cuba Gooding Jr.]". But it will only be "fixed" like that in your local database when you (a) contribute your cast data, (b) it gets accepted by Invelos, and (c) you accept your own update when it comes back to you. That's many if's, and the risk is that you remain stuck with separate, non-linking entries for Cuba Gooding Jr. and Cuba Gooding, Jr. - and how silly is that? The "always use the comma" standard is meant to prohibit exactly that, so instead of entering "Cuba Gooding Jr." and waiting for the corrected version to come back to us, most users actually enter it correctly to begin with, as "Cuba Gooding, Jr. [Cuba Gooding Jr.]". Again: the filter will fix it for those who refuse to maintain the standard locally, but there really is no reason not to do it right the first time. |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Wouldn't it be the easiest in this cases to just leave Cuba Gooding, Jr. in your local actor database and delete the variants, so you would never have to care about the ifs? |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,733 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
Wouldn't it be the easiest in this cases to just leave Cuba Gooding, Jr. in your local actor database and delete the variants, so you would never have to care about the ifs? Indeed - that's what I said. That's the beauty in having the standard: we can consistently enter ALL suffixed names with the comma, and we then use the "credited as" field whenever no comma is seen on-screen. Again: even for those who don't do this, the contribution filter will fix it like that, but it's a lot easier to do it right from the start. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Almost agreed. Sure, that is a possibility, and indeed, Invelos filter will bring this back as "Cuba Gooding, Jr. [Cuba Gooding Jr.]". But it will only be "fixed" like that in your local database when you (a) contribute your cast data, (b) it gets accepted by Invelos, and (c) you accept your own update when it comes back to you. That's many if's, and the risk is that you remain stuck with separate, non-linking entries for Cuba Gooding Jr. and Cuba Gooding, Jr. - and how silly is that? The "always use the comma" standard is meant to prohibit exactly that, so instead of entering "Cuba Gooding Jr." and waiting for the corrected version to come back to us, most users actually enter it correctly to begin with, as "Cuba Gooding, Jr. [Cuba Gooding Jr.]". Again: the filter will fix it for those who refuse to maintain the standard locally, but there really is no reason not to do it right the first time. You are, of course, correct. I was just extending the 'never have to think about it' concept all the way through. If you want it to link immediately, in your local, you will have to think about it...just a little. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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