An update was approved yesterday for the profile "Charlie Chan on Broadway".  This update was by Rutan, and it was to give Composer credit to Samuel Kaylin.  This contribution received five Yes votes against a lone No vote.  To be fair to those voting Yes, the contribution note was "Samuel Kaylin Composer as credited."

Here's my question:  Is it the habit of this group to give Composer credit to someone who is listed in the film credits as only the Musical Director?  Here is how Mr. Kaylin is listed in the film credits:

  Musical Direction - Samuel Kaylin

It's true that Mr. Kaylin may have written some, or all, of the music for this film, but he was not credited in the film (or even on the DVD packaging) as doing so.

Any thoughts on this subject would be appreciated.

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agree with northbloke.

Quoting hydr0x:

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see also

http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=313951&PageNum=5

And that's fine.  If it's decided that Musical Director is too trivial to note, then that's OK.  I have a lot of movie profiles with no credits for music listed, and I prefer that to having a "musical director" credited as the "composer".

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Quoting scotthm:

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Quoting hydr0x:

Quote:
see also

http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=313951&PageNum=5

And that's fine.  If it's decided that Musical Director is too trivial to note, then that's OK.  I have a lot of movie profiles with no credits for music listed, and I prefer that to having a "musical director" credited as the "composer".

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And scott, you are FREE to do that in your local database, you are NOT free to decide to try and include data which is not in our Rules for Contribution. So...keep it locally, nobody will say a word.

Skip

The situation is that a lot of B movies just used music libraries, so they would have no composer.  I don't know about this title in particular, but in a lot of instances the Musical Director would just pick the library cues as appropriate and drop them in.  So they're definitely not composers for the film, since it probably had no original music in the first place.  You get this a lot in the B-westerns like the Gene Autry and Roy Rogers pictures; you just have to do without a composer.

Quoting Unicus69:

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Quoting northbloke:

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I would have voted no on that too. A musical director is not the same as composer. It's possible he did write the music for the film, but as you say that's not what he's credited as.
I would guess the other voters simply took the user's word for it and didn't check the credits.

I agree with this as well.  For the most part, we work on the honor system, so I am sure everybody just took his word for it.

Since I don't have the title in my database I didn't get an opportunity to vote.  If I could have voted on it, I might have voted yes -- if no one had already pointed out that the credit was for a Musical Director.

Since the voting screen doesn't show date/time for the votes, there's no way to tell if anyone voted yes after the lone no vote was cast.  So it's possible, even likely, that people did as northbloke and Unicus said -- based their vote on taking the user's word for it without checking the credits -- before the no vote was recorded.

Maybe, pauls.

Skip

Quoting skipnet50:

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There is NO Musical Director included i Profiler and such an attempt to include it should be voted NO!!!!!!!!!! As to inclusion....WHY?...does he get ANY kind of an award....NO.

Skip

Actually, musical directors have historically won Oscars in certain of the scoring categories offered at the Academy Awards. It's only recently (consistently since 1984) that the Academy has given awards only for original scores. Prior to that, Oscars were given for adapted scores, scores for musicals, song score, etc., with most years offering more than one scoring award, usually one original and one for other. A lot of times these were called Original Scoring versus Scoring of a Motion Picture. In those years, Scoring of a Motion Picture was not for original music. In 1937, for example, the awards specifically mention the musical directors.

I don't have a complete understanding of all of the film roles that were nominated in these categories over the years, but Musical Director is not as insignificant as described in several of the posts here. I do know that many of the nominees and winners in the scoring categories are not included in DVD Profiler at present due to conflicts with our credit chart, the 1945 winner of Scoring of a Musical Picture, Georgie Stoll, is one example. He's credited as Musical Director for Anchors Aweigh.

If you want an overview of the evolution of these categories, you can go to the Oscar site and select the Music (Scoring) option and then Search. This will bring up a chronological list for all years.

I'm not advocating that anyone should break the rule here. Just providing some history.