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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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With All Due Respect to All |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,916 |
| | Posted: | | | | If a contributor can't take a PM explaining nicely how to properly document a submission without being scared off, then their skin isn't thick enough for this system. | | | | Last edited: by Dr. Killpatient |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 128 |
| | Posted: | | | | I detest people following the rule because it is the rule.
Sure, it can be argued that the contributor is the one who has to provide all the documentation, and the voters only have to vote on if the contributor followed the RULES. Well, in that case the whole voting would be nonsensical. My take is that voters should be able to check a contribution, either by looking on their own DVD or by following the sources given. That is the reason science papers, technical papers and respective papers in the humanities provide sources. And that is why we should provide sources.
I am one of those helping out with [proper] documentation in votes, for the simple reason that I am more interested in correct data than correct behaviour. If a contributor gets it right but forgets to include a source I am glad to help out. BTW, voters are forced to give a valid reason, i.e. a source why the disagree with a change, when they go No. If I find my Yes debatable I add a source or a good reason why I vote such in the light of possible problems. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
It's no different, Martin. The user need to be taught, I advised him to edit his notes so I can vote yes. If he asks how to edit notes I will teach him that. We are not voting to teach, only to judge. It could be that the contributor is already aware of the things you are trying to teach him/her, which will only irritate him/her and maybe stop them from helping ever again. Someone is always innocent until proven guilty in my book. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Evo:
Iunderstand your comments. Please understand what I am saying. Any comment which you leave as a voter does not become a part of that titles permamnent record, only the Contributor's notes do. Might itbe useful if the voter comments were part of that record...I don't know, I have mixed feelings on that. I find it much more helpful as do MOST users, to PM them and offer advice, most recieve such well, some don't and that is expected.
I will not vote yes to unsupported and undocumented changes to a Profile, nor will I ever through comments do the research for the user...that I believe only encourages the user to be lazy. I have helped numerous users wityh research via PMwhich I tell them to include in their notes.
I have been doing this now for over 8 years, and I haven't seen anything new come up that comes to mind, but documenting our changes is one of the best things we can do.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
It's no different, Martin. The user need to be taught, I advised him to edit his notes so I can vote yes. If he asks how to edit notes I will teach him that. What I KNOW about a given title is not relevant, I am not the one making the Contribution, as I said undocumented data is WRONG. Voter knowledge is not relevant since it does not become a part of the record for that title. Who knows perehaps 5 years from now the title involved will become the subject of debated over the release date, just like some of the ones we have had recently over early releases to DVD, and what do his notes tell us...NOTHING.<shrugs>
So I try to teach him the right way, but at the same time, it is not unusual for new users to respond to a PM a week or two later, by which time any comments have likely been forgotten, but users such as james and Rick have been allowed to damage the database by allowing unsupported data in, thinking they were being helpful by providing documentation. <sigh> It's really too bad that some people just don't understand. 
Skip I bet I could support my DVD habit if I got paid a nickel every time you said I was destroying the database.  I understand what you are saying and why you believe it's best, but the rules don't match your methods. And your methods are not the rules. Most of what you just said is not mentioned in the rules at all yet you refer to it as "the right way." You will never achieve a perfect contribution note record unless Invelos requires it. Good luck with that. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
It's no different, Martin. The user need to be taught, I advised him to edit his notes so I can vote yes. If he asks how to edit notes I will teach him that.
We are not voting to teach, only to judge. It could be that the contributor is already aware of the things you are trying to teach him/her, which will only irritate him/her and maybe stop them from helping ever again. Someone is always innocent until proven guilty in my book. True enough, Martin. Since you correctly stated "only to judge". I judge his data to be wrong due to lack of documentation and James and Rick to be wrong astheir comments are not part of the permanent record, though I appreciate what they are trying to do and why. Undocumented is simply wrong. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Believe it or not, BTW, I am uncomfortable with the "Cast and Crew data edited and Ordered per Actual film credits". Why, because I am asking you to take my word for it, even though it's true. In an ideal world, I would be able to provide screen caps to back up what I say. But I also recognize the issues that involves and that it is just not a practical answer. So I am stuck with it. It's one of the reasons back at IVS for those who remember that I used to copy the data as I actually submitted it to be part of the record, I found that useful going forward and also recognized as I think we have all seen that sometimes data as presented does not show up as presented.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
...James and Rick... Do you mean him?  | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Why. thank you, Giga. I assume there will be some apologies forthcoming...fat chance.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | It also says "be sure to provide explanations where needed", so a user does not have to source his/her changes, with the exception of cast and crew, if he/she thinks it's not necessary. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | A "Yes" vote with a comment that the user needs to provide a source for his data in the future would have accomplished the mission here.
I agree that the Rules actually say to provide an "explanation" of the change being made not "documentation" and "sources" for the change. The contributor did provide an "explanation" of what they did and why.
If the data submitted is right, why would anyone vote "no". If you don't know if the data is right, and you don't want to take time to validate it, then you should vote "neutral".
You should only vote "no" when the you know the data is wrong.......IMHO! | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Martin: That is not what it says. It EMPHASIZES, cast and crew "For all contributions, indicate the source of the data,Hal, with all due respect I have to disagree. As I said, what I know is NOT RELEVANT, this is about providing adequate and proper information for ALL users. To vote yes to incomplete notes or not proper documentation is simply irresponsible. I am sure you have seen some the discussions, we have had lately over release dates for 8 or 9 year old titles. How much easier would that have been had we had proper notes and documentation 8 or 9 years ago. So why do we want to continue this problem, i don't want to have that discussion about this or any other title in 5 years, I should be able to point at the notes and say right there is your documentation that the data is CORRECT. All we have to do as Contributors and voters is to follow the Rules and it is clearly spelled out to provide the surce for your data.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet: Quote:
It also says "be sure to provide explanations where needed", so a user does not have to source his/her changes, with the exception of cast and crew, if he/she thinks it's not necessary. it is marked in RED: "For all contributions, indicate the source of data, especially cast and crew additions." I don't see anywhere an exeption where you should not comply to this. Additional you should provide explanations where needed. this is how i understand this. | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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