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Original Title - Sources?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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I've recently found it necessary to vote "no" to several contributions that do not follow the Invelos Contribution Rules. These contributions are an attempt to use information from the front cover of a previous release to populate the Original Title field of a subsequent release. The contributor has updated his contribution notes (in at least one case) to the following:

Quote:
*Updated Notes*
Added original title, from the original US release.

I have to point out that the no-voters are mistaken: this is not about the entire show's original title, but about this particular season's original title. The season indicator is an integral part of both title fields. This addition is needed to ensure that all versions of this season, accross the various regions and localities, are all counted as *one* single title in the CLT.


The rules themselves have little to say about Original Titles, but they do make it clear that any original title should come "from the film's credits".  There is no such thing an an original "season title" per the rules.

Quote:
Original Title
The Original Title field serves two general purposes, but in both cases allows for the tracking of the original feature title. For profiles which have an alternate title displayed on the cover, use the title from the film's credits. For titles released outside their country of origin, use the original release title.
In cases where the title is the original title, leave the Original Title field blank.

  • Foreign Films: The Original Title field will contain the original title for the main feature in the country of origin.  i.e. A German DVD release for a film originally produced in the United States would have the German title in the Title field and the English title in the Original Title Field.

  • Modified Titles: The Original Title field will contain the original theatrical title, while the Title field will contain the title of the DVD release.  For instance, for the Special Edition rerelease of There's Something About Mary:

  •       *Title: There's Something More About Mary
          *Original Title: There's Something About Mary


    Neither the Box Sets section nor the TV Series section of the rules say anything about Original Titles in these special cases.  This contributor seems to be using his desire to "fix" the CLT as an excuse to violate the contribution rules.  What are your thoughts? Am I mistaken, or not?

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     Last edited: by scotthm
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
    Aficionado since 1999
    Registered: March 13, 2007
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    Populating profiles with subjective data to "fix" a limitation of the CLT is the wrong way to go about it.

    If anything, the original title should be the title of the series taken from the credits and nothing else.
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributormarcelb7
    Registered: Oct. 16, 2000
    Registered: March 13, 2007
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    The wording of the poll is incomplete. Nobody argues about the original title of movies. It's the TV series that need a fix. Film ≠ TV series.
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNosferatu
    Registered: March 24, 2007
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    Quoting scotthm:
    Quote:
    I've recently found it necessary to vote "no" to several contributions that do not follow the Invelos Contribution Rules. These contributions are an attempt to use information from the front cover of a previous release to populate the Original Title field of a subsequent release.

    It's hard to know what to say without knowing the titles in question.
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
    Registered: March 20, 2007
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    Quoting Nosferatu:
    Quote:
    It's hard to know what to say without knowing the titles in question.

    Why?  It's a box set containing one season of a television series.  The contribution is attempting to put the title of a prior release into the Original Title field of this subsequent release.

    e.g.

    Title: Series: Season Four
    Original Title: Series: The Complete Fourth Season

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    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
    Registered: March 20, 2007
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    Quoting marcelb7:
    Quote:
    The wording of the poll is incomplete. Nobody argues about the original title of movies. It's the TV series that need a fix. Film ≠ TV series.

    Perhaps I missed it.  Where in the rules does it give us an alternate way to determine the Original Title other than the rule I posted above?

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    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNosferatu
    Registered: March 24, 2007
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    Quoting scotthm:
    Quote:
    Quoting Nosferatu:
    Quote:
    It's hard to know what to say without knowing the titles in question.

    Why?  It's a box set containing one season of a television series.  The contribution is attempting to put the title of a prior release into the Original Title field of this subsequent release.

    e.g.

    Title: Series: Season Four
    Original Title: Series: The Complete Fourth Season

    ---------------

    It helps to search within a database containing TV series/seasons from different localities and released at different times, then having a 'standard' title for that TV series makes sense. I wouldn't object to it.
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpaulb_99
    PSN-ID: Magnolia-Fan
    Registered: March 14, 2007
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    Shouldn't the original title of a TV Series just be the title of the show without any season/series info?

    I've never seen a show which had the season info on-screen in the opening and/or end credits. And this way all seasons, as well as the separate discs, no matter how packaged by the distributor of which language they're in will have the same original title....
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
    Registered: March 20, 2007
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    Quoting paulb_99:
    Quote:
    Shouldn't the original title of a TV Series just be the title of the show without any season/series info?

    If you were going to contribute an Original Title that's how I think it would have to be, because that's the only title that would appear in the credits.

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    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhuskersports
    Registered: September 29, 2008
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    Quoting scotthm:
    Quote:
    Quoting paulb_99:
    Quote:
    Shouldn't the original title of a TV Series just be the title of the show without any season/series info?

    If you were going to contribute an Original Title that's how I think it would have to be, because that's the only title that would appear in the credits.

    ---------------


    Bad idea. That would make, for example, all 7 seasons of 30 Rock, ONE credit when using the CLT. Each season is 1 credit, not each series. Another example, if The Incredible Hulk's first season were released as The Incredible Hulk: Season 1 in it's country of origin (USA), but released as The Incredible Hulk: Season One overseas, then adding an original title of The Incredible Hulk: Season 1 is appropriate to link the 2 together as 1 credit. I mean, we all agree that Season 1 and Season One are the same season/credit! TV series/seasons, in my opinion, should be treated differently original title-wise.
    My one wish for the DVD Profiler online database: Ban or remove the disc-level profiles of TV season sets. It completely screws up/inflates the CLT.
    FACT: Imdb is WRONG 70% of the time! Misspelled cast, incomplete cast, wrong cast/crew roles. So for those who want DVD Profiler to be "as perfect as Imdb", good luck with that.
    Stop adding UNIT crew! They're invalid credits. Stop it!
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
    Registered: March 20, 2007
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    Quoting huskersports:
    Quote:
    Bad idea. That would make, for example, all 7 seasons of 30 Rock, ONE credit when using the CLT.

    So?  Why does that matter?

    If the person is John Doe (Jack Doe) or Jack Doe (John Doe) what does it matter, as long as we're all on the same page.  The two names still link together.

    Besides, I didn't say we should start using Original Titles for television series, just that if we did that's the form the rules would require.

    Quote:
    Each season is 1 credit, not each series.

    Why?  Why not make each episode one credit?  Or each series?  What difference would any of that have made in our quest to link names together?

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     Last edited: by scotthm
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpaulb_99
    PSN-ID: Magnolia-Fan
    Registered: March 14, 2007
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    Quoting huskersports:
    Quote:
    Each season is 1 credit, not each series.


    No, each episode is an credit.

    Quoting huskersports:
    Quote:
    Another example, if The Incredible Hulk's first season were released as The Incredible Hulk: Season 1 in it's country of origin (USA), but released as The Incredible Hulk: Season One overseas, then adding an original title of The Incredible Hulk: Season 1 is appropriate to link the 2 together as 1 credit.


    Season 1 is the DVD/Blu-ray title, season one/first seaon etc. as far as i know is never included in the actual credits. The title of the show is The Incredible Hulk.
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
    Profiling since 2001
    Registered: March 14, 2007
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    Quoting scotthm:
    Quote:
    what does it matter, as long as we're all on the same page

    This thread is going a bit OT, but I'll just agree with you. I had a similar argument here many years ago. I feel that we should just use the CLT. I feel that the idea of "common name" has been largely misunderstood. It doesn't have to be "the most common name", as long as everybody uses the same method of determining the linking name, i.e. the CLT.

    So yeah, it would be nice if we were all on the same page. But I guess that ship sailed a long time ago ... 
    My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
    Gunnar
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorSpikyCactus
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    Registered: July 16, 2010
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    Quoting GSyren:
    Quote:
    Quoting scotthm:
    Quote:
    what does it matter, as long as we're all on the same page

    This thread is going a bit OT, but I'll just agree with you. I had a similar argument here many years ago. I feel that we should just use the CLT. I feel that the idea of "common name" has been largely misunderstood. It doesn't have to be "the most common name", as long as everybody uses the same method of determining the linking name, i.e. the CLT.

    So yeah, it would be nice if we were all on the same page. But I guess that ship sailed a long time ago ... 


    What they said...

    But as someone who's currently going through complete Buffy and Angel box sets with a view to contributing all the details when I'm done, the temptation to ignore the simple, raw CLT results in favour of trying to pick the details apart whenever it's obvious a result is wrong, is a tough thing to do. Humans! 
    Do you ever find yourself striving for perfection with an almost worthless attempt at it?  Guttermouth "Lemon Water".  Also, I include in my Profiler database VHS tapes, audio DVDs, audio books (cassettes and CDs) and video games (disk based and digital), as well as films and TV I've bought digitally.  So I'm an anarchist, deal with it.  Just be thankful I don't include most of my records and CDs etc in it too; don't think I haven't been tempted...
     Last edited: by SpikyCactus
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorateo357
    Registered: December 27, 2009
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    Quote:
    Quoting huske:rsports

    Bad idea. That would make, for example, all 7 seasons of 30 Rock, ONE credit when using the CLT. Each season is 1 credit, not each series. Another example, if The Incredible Hulk's first season were released as The Incredible Hulk: Season 1 in it's country of origin (USA), but released as The Incredible Hulk: Season One overseas, then adding an original title of The Incredible Hulk: Season 1 is appropriate to link the 2 together as 1 credit. I mean, we all agree that Season 1 and Season One are the same season/credit! TV series/seasons, in my opinion, should be treated differently original title-wise.



    Individual season profiles would have different produced years. Giving you 7 credits with the original title as 30 Rock.  Would only be 1 credit for complete series (but that would only be a handful).

    example Actor X credited in 1 episode in each season 7 & 8

    Actor X  11 titles 20 profiles

    Monk: The Complete Series  2002
    Monk - Saison 8 (Monk: Season Eight) 2009 5-050582-767858
    Monk: 8. Staffel (Monk: Season 8) 2009 5-050582-844191
    Monk: 8. Staffel (Monk: Season 8) 2009 5-050582-831863
    Monk: 8. Staffel (Monk: Season 8) 2009 Disc: 53C0-C0B8-5A08-B419
    Monk: 8. Staffel: Disc 1 (Monk: Season 8: Disc 1) 2009 Disc: 53C0-C0B8-5A08-B419
    Monk: Season Eight 2009 5-050582-767872
    Monk: Season Eight 2009 025192-043642
    Monk: Season Eight: Disc 1 2009 Disc: 9238-56AE-590E-5D7C
    Monk: Season Eight: Disc One 2009 Disc: 34AC-FA3F-D255-A0FB
    Monk - Saison 7 (Monk: Season Seven) 2008 5-050582-721959
    Monk: 7. Staffel (Monk: Season Seven) 2008 5-050582-844184
    Monk: 7. Staffel (Monk: Season Seven) 2008 5-050582-768527
    Monk: 7. Staffel (Monk: Season Seven) 2008 Disc: 980F-C710-5324-2811
    Monk: 7. Staffel: Disc 1 (Monk: Season 7: Disc 1) 2008 Disc: 980F-C710-5324-2811
    Monk: Saison 7 (Monk: Season Seven) 2008 5-050582-723274
    Monk: Season Seven 2008 025195-050272
    Monk: Season Seven 2008 5-050582-614459
    Monk: Season Seven: Disc 1 2008 Disc: B13B-E6E0-E130-A283
    Monk: Season Seven: Disc One 2008 Disc: F566-1396-47B4-59FC

    Actor X 3 titles 20 profiles

    Monk: The Complete Series (Monk)  2002
    Monk - Saison 8 (Monk) 2009 5-050582-767858
    Monk: 8. Staffel (Monk) 2009 5-050582-844191
    Monk: 8. Staffel (Monk) 2009 5-050582-831863
    Monk: 8. Staffel (Monk) 2009 Disc: 53C0-C0B8-5A08-B419
    Monk: 8. Staffel: Disc 1 (Monk) 2009 Disc: 53C0-C0B8-5A08-B419
    Monk: Season Eight (Monk) 2009 5-050582-767872
    Monk: Season Eight (Monk) 2009 025192-043642
    Monk: Season Eight: Disc 1 (Monk) 2009 Disc: 9238-56AE-590E-5D7C
    Monk: Season Eight: Disc One (Monk)  2009 Disc: 34AC-FA3F-D255-A0FB
    Monk - Saison 7 (Monk) 2008 5-050582-721959
    Monk: 7. Staffel (Monk) 2008 5-050582-844184
    Monk: 7. Staffel (Monk) 2008 5-050582-768527
    Monk: 7. Staffel (Monk) 2008 Disc: 980F-C710-5324-2811
    Monk: 7. Staffel: Disc 1 (Monk) 2008 Disc: 980F-C710-5324-2811
    Monk: Saison 7 (Monk) 2008 5-050582-723274
    Monk: Season Seven (Monk) 2008 025195-050272
    Monk: Season Seven (Monk) 2008 5-050582-614459
    Monk: Season Seven: Disc 1 (Monk) 2008 Disc: B13B-E6E0-E130-A283
    Monk: Season Seven: Disc One (Monk) 2008 Disc: F566-1396-47B4-59FC
     Last edited: by ateo357
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
    Registered: December 10, 2007
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    Quoting paulb_99:
    Quote:
    Shouldn't the original title of a TV Series just be the title of the show without any season/series info?

    I've never seen a show which had the season info on-screen in the opening and/or end credits. And this way all seasons, as well as the separate discs, no matter how packaged by the distributor of which language they're in will have the same original title....


    No, because then the DB considers show season 1, show season 5 & show, the complete series all different releases of the same thing when they are releases of distinct material. It would cause a bunch of false flags as duplicates.
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