Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next
Common name: Greg Oehler / Gregory Oehler
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMad Rockatansky
I'm just here for the Gas
Registered: January 21, 2015
Reputation: Highest Rating
Italy Posts: 2,069
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
.
"Two days ago, I saw a vehicle that would haul that tanker. You want to get out of here? ...You talk to me."
 Last edited: by Mad Rockatansky
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 5,617
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Although I voted No back then, there is a valid poll, which validates this type of credits. Back then all information including the remarkable wording "Individual credits" was available; nothing relevant changed.

Therefore the credits are still valid.
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1)
 Last edited: by AiAustria
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 5,617
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Per the rules any individual credits are valid!

There was a thread in the rules forum with the intention to change this, but it the response was negative.

Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1)
 Last edited: by AiAustria
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,402
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
Per the rules any individual credits are valid!

They *aren't* individual credits, and that's why they're invalid. "Visual Effects: John Doe" is an individual credit. "Visual Effects: 25 names" is not an individual credit, obviously. Instead, a group of people is credited with no indication on what job they've performed. And if you research the people in these groups, you'll find that many of them perform jobs that wouldn't qualify for entry in DVD Profiler in any circumstance: among them are visual effects producers, rotoscopers, compositors, and so on. These are not jobs that we track. If someone is credited with a (valid) individual job, then yes, they should be included. But a group of people without individual jobs should not. As so often in the DVD Profiler community, true consensus is hard to find, but that's my stance, and I'll stick with it until Invelos tells us otherwise.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,402
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
That brings us to:

GREG OEHLER (6 titles, 5 confirmed)
- Astronomy
- Killers (confirmed by T!M)
- Mad Families (confirmed by Gamemaster)
- Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides (confirmed by mreeder50)
- Poseidon (confirmed by mreeder50)
- To Die For (confirmed by Mad Rockatansky)

GREGORY OEHLER (4 titles, 4 confirmed)
- Hardcore Henry (confirmed by JOHNNYV)
- Men in Black 3 (confirmed by mreeder50)
- The Green Hornet (confirmed by mreeder50)
- The Odd Life of Timothy Green (confirmed by mreeder50)

INVALID
- Constantine (confirmed by Kluge)
- Invictus (confirmed by Kluge)
- The Sunset Limited (confirmed by T!M)
- Watchmen (confirmed by Kluge)
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGamemaster
Registered: February 8, 2011
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 1,033
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Mad Families --> Greg Oehler as VFX Supervisor
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 5,617
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
That brings us to:

GREG OEHLER (6 titles, 5 confirmed)
- Astronomy
- Killers (confirmed by T!M)
- Mad Families (confirmed by Gamemaster)
- Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides (confirmed by mreeder50)
- Poseidon (confirmed by mreeder50)
- To Die For (confirmed by Mad Rockatansky)

GREGORY OEHLER (4 titles, 4 confirmed)
- Hardcore Henry (confirmed by JOHNNYV)
- Men in Black 3 (confirmed by mreeder50)
- The Green Hornet (confirmed by mreeder50)
- The Odd Life of Timothy Green (confirmed by mreeder50)

INVALID
- Constantine (confirmed by Kluge)
- Invictus (confirmed by Kluge)
- The Sunset Limited (confirmed by T!M)
- Watchmen (confirmed by Kluge)


As cited above, these entries were judged valid by the community!

Since this is - or at least should be - a community effort, the common name is not defined by the one who declares himself as "the majority" and repeats his view of the rules most often.

@Mad Rockatansky: Could you please be so kind and copy in the correct count again. - Thank you.
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,402
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
As cited above, these entries were judged valid by the community!

No, they were not, you've misunderstood that, and it wouldn't even matter, as they're simply not allowed by the contribition rules. Once again, if you look at the crew credits table in the contribution rules, you'll note that *only* in the visual effects section, there's a bolded "Individual Credits" requirement - and note Invelos deemed that so important that they're the only two bolded words in the entire crew credits table. That bolded requirement is put there specifically to disallow these groups of unspecified credits. Note that this requirement is *only* added to the visual effects section, and not to other sections, as we do want to be able to add a group of producers, sound editors or make-up artists. So those sections don't contain this requirement - only the visual effects section does. Again: expressly aimed at these groups.

I'll make it very simple: what, pray tell, is the opposite of "individual"? Would that be... wait for it... a group? So when the rules explicitly restrict these visual effects entries to "individual credits", then that's inherently a definite no to groups. There's really no other explanation - which explains why you haven't provided one. It's really not that difficult: the rules on the "visual effects" credit declare individual credits valid, and groups invalid. There's just no more to this entire debate than that.

So no, they are not allowed to be included per the rules, and therefore the count I provided is accurate. And if that's necessary, I will keep providing that actual count indefinitely.

No amount of arguing will change the bottom line that this is simply not allowed by the contribution rules. And for good reason, too, as most of the people find in these groups have never ever, in their entire career, performed *any* job that DVD Profiler tracks. And that's exactly why, and rightly so, the contribution rules explicitly forbid their inclusion.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 5,617
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
... no amount of arguing will change the bottom line that this is simply not allowed by the contribution rules...

This is your opinion. And, unless you can find a majority around here forllowing this interpretion, it is useless. You cannot ignore the expressed opinion of the majority; they expressed it twice!
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,402
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
This is your opinion.

No, those are the rules.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 5,617
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
This is your opinion.

No, those are the rules.

This is your (personal) interpretion of this rule. Repeating it endlessly did not convice the majority voting against it. ... and still does not.
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,402
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
[...] the majority voting against it [...]

The most recent discussion about this was in this thread, in which everyone, *even you*, agreed that these should not be listed. That's the majority you're looking for. Let's quote your original point of view from that very thread once more:

Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
Agreed. Masses of employes without job description do not qualify for listing.

Wise words, indeed. But again, pointing to any forum thread isn't even necessary, as these groups are simply not allowed by the contribution rules. Of course, you can try to ignore or invalidate literally *every* single line of the contribution rules by saying: "well, I interpret that differently" - but then you'll have to play without me. I really have to interest of keeping this argument going for ages, restating the same old arguments over and over again. There's just no point... In the meantime, I'll just stick to the rules, and if that means that a common name-finding thread needs an accurate count at some point, then I'll happily provide that - not just for my own benefit, but for that of anyone else who wants to follow the rules.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 5,617
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
The most recent discussion about this was in this thread, in which everyone, *even you*, agreed that these should not be listed. That's the majority you're looking for.

A thread with 15 posts (including mine pointing to the contradicting votes, seems not to be sufficient to outdate two polls of 20+ users each. At least not in my universe.
Quote:
... I'll just stick to the rules, ...

You try to push through your interpretion of the rules against the already documented will of the majority.

... and you highjack this common name thread to do this...
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1)
 Last edited: by AiAustria
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,402
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Once again, no amount of arguing will change the bottom line that this is simply not allowed by the contribution rules. I'm going to stick by those rules, and yes, if that means that a common name-finding thread needs an accurate count at some point, then I'll happily provide that - not just for my own benefit, but for that of anyone else who wants to follow the rules.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 5,617
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Once again, no amount of arguing will change the bottom line that this is simply not allowed by the contribution rules. I'm going to stick by those rules, and yes, if that means that a common name-finding thread needs an accurate count at some point, then I'll happily provide that - not just for my own benefit, but for that of anyone else who wants to follow the rules.

You can repeat it as long and as loud as you want - and do: It will not override the fact that the community voted to interpret exact this rule in a another way than you.

As long as you are not Ken, nor an Invelos executive nor God, you are simply wrong.

Continuing to insist on your interpretion of this rule is stubborn and way beyond your level, at least the level I thought you were acting on.
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,402
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Needless to say, I feel the exact same way about you and the unfortunate stance you're taking here.
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next