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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1... 7 8 9 10 11 ...24  Previous   Next
Crew Credits: How do you want to track them?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Quoting DarklyNoon:
Quote:
Excuse moi,

I like to have one, only ONE reason, why anyone of the contributors should listen to people who are not contributing at all ?
I really would like to understand what the agenda is, of those people, who keep everything local, do nothing that helps the community...and still they are trying to force their opinions , their rules onto the guys that are keeping this whole program going...THE CONTRIBUTORS!!!

For me it seems that you must be really, really bored.

Donnie

They are users, some are users who do not have time to contribute profiles like some others and many of these users are paid subscribers. Sorry, that was three. Does that count thrice?

BTW, if you look really close, you will find that I have contributed a few recently but absolutely nothing like I used to. With the incessant arguments, it isn't worth it and I am a busy person who is a paid subscriber.
Dan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 3,004
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So to summarize: complete open credits would break crew linking as the program wouldn't have any way of knowing the cinematographer and kamera mean the same thing, (or for that matter screenplay and written for the screen by) would be a lot of trouble to implement both from a programming and a data entry standpoint and only a few users (possibly only one) care about whatever benefits would come of this. Yet, the user who wants other people do do a lot of work for a feature only he cares about isn't the selfish one.

If you aks me, we track too much already. I only care about the sound editor and mixer. These are only people who get Oscars. Yet, we are having threads to figure out the common name for re-recordists. Part of the problem is that which crew is important varies a lot movie to movie. People care about the art designer for Batman, but not so much Sleepless in Seattle. The visual effects supervisor is important information for an effects driven movie like The Thing, but not so much Meet Joe Black, which had one brief effects shot. People care about the sound mixer for U-571 more than Clerks.

The only crew that are basically always important are the director, writer, producer, editor and cinematographer, and I'm not entirely sure about those last two. Those are the ones that important in regular movies anyway (i.e. not a single, take, no diagetic camera).
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,850
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
The program should try as hard as possible to serve ALL users, not just the few, even if that few is the majority.

I don't believe you will end up with a satisfactory result if you try to accomodate every feature request, some of which will be incompatible with one another.  Adding arcane features is not the best way to improve DVDP IMO.

---------------
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
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Quoting DarklyNoon:
Quote:
Excuse moi,

I like to have one, only ONE reason, why anyone of the contributors should listen to people who are not contributing at all ?
I really would like to understand what the agenda is, of those people, who keep everything local, do nothing that helps the community...and still they are trying to force their opinions , their rules onto the guys that are keeping this whole program going...THE CONTRIBUTORS!!!

For me it seems that you must be really, really bored.

Donnie

Not worth it

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Quoting reybr:
Quote:
So basically, we would have a different standard for each locality. That sounds like a great idea 
For translations, we already do.

Quote:
And if you translate a credit into your native language, why can't you just use the existing system? That works for every locality/language through the translation files.
The current credit system is inaccurate by design, in every locality.
Dan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorVirusPil
uncredited
Registered: January 1, 2009
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 3,087
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Imho the crew we track is enough, but what I would like to have, is the option to contribute additional the actual on-screen credit. (some kind as the credited as for names)

For example:
John Carpenter [John "The Godfather of Horror" Carpenter] - Writer [Written by]
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
So to summarize: complete open credits would break crew linking as the program wouldn't have any way of knowing the cinematographer and kamera mean the same thing, (or for that matter screenplay and written for the screen by) would be a lot of trouble to implement both from a programming and a data entry standpoint and only a few users (possibly only one) care about whatever benefits would come of this. Yet, the user who wants other people do do a lot of work for a feature only he cares about isn't the selfish one.

If you aks me, we track too much already. I only care about the sound editor and mixer. These are only people who get Oscars. Yet, we are having threads to figure out the common name for re-recordists. Part of the problem is that which crew is important varies a lot movie to movie. People care about the art designer for Batman, but not so much Sleepless in Seattle. The visual effects supervisor is important information for an effects driven movie like The Thing, but not so much Meet Joe Black, which had one brief effects shot. People care about the sound mixer for U-571 more than Clerks.

The only crew that are basically always important are the director, writer, producer, editor and cinematographer, and I'm not entirely sure about those last two. Those are the ones that important in regular movies anyway (i.e. not a single, take, no diagetic camera).


If you build your links on the credited person's name (or "most common name") and birth date, your links would function properly regardless of the credits system being used.
Dan
 Last edited: by Dan W
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorreybr
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Norway Posts: 906
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Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
I fail to understand why an open credit would create more problems with these profiles than it would for any of the others


The current system works for all languages regardless of what language the credits are in. A person that understand the credits of a foreign movie, enters it into DVDProfiler in the correct slot (Director, Art Director, whatever). Because of the translation files, that slot can be Director for one user and Regissør for another user. The underlying data is still the same. We lose this ability with open credits, so it will be just Regissør for all users, if that is what is entered into the database.

Also if you translate the crew roles to the language of your locality, you are moving away from the idea that open credits should be a copy of what the credits actually are.

Another point is that I can easily contribute to a Swedish, Danish, Portuguese, British or Canadian locality with the current system. Especially for English language movies. With your suggestion of translations that should be agreed upon within that locality (As if that is gonna happen), this will be virtually impossible and the smaller localities will suffer even more since I no longer can contribute to Portuguese localities because I don't know the language.

The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorreybr
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Norway Posts: 906
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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
So to summarize: complete open credits would break crew linking as the program wouldn't have any way of knowing the cinematographer and kamera mean the same thing


Actually, it wouldn't, since the program doesn't have any linking related to crew roles in the first place, but it would break the link for those of us that use the XML export and would like to see all movies directed by Spielberg and exclude those were he was a producer.

The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity
 Last edited: by reybr
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 3,004
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Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
If you build your links on the credited person's name (or "most common name") and birth date, your links would function properly regardless of the credits system being used.


I didn't mean that kind of linking. I meant you couldn't look up what movies Akira Kurosawa directed because the program wouldn't know what is and isn't a director credit. Granted, we don't have that feature now without plug-ins, but it would make it impossible to use it even there.
 Last edited: by Ace_of_Sevens
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,850
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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
The only crew that are basically always important are the director, writer, producer, editor and cinematographer, and I'm not entirely sure about those last two. Those are the ones that important in regular movies anyway (i.e. not a single, take, no diagetic camera).

I would add composer and drop producer, but your point is well taken.

---------------
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
If you build your links on the credited person's name (or "most common name") and birth date, your links would function properly regardless of the credits system being used.


I didn't mean that kind of linking. I meant you couldn't look up what movies Akira Kurosawa directed because the program wouldn't know what is and isn't a director credit. Granted, we don't have that feature now without plug-ins, but it would make it impossible to use it even there.

a simple search utility with selectable filters with a proper linking system based on a credited persons name is not a difficult thing to create. Talking Ken into it may be another thing altogether.
Dan
 Last edited: by Dan W
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
The only crew that are basically always important are the director, writer, producer, editor and cinematographer, and I'm not entirely sure about those last two. Those are the ones that important in regular movies anyway (i.e. not a single, take, no diagetic camera).

I would add composer and drop producer, but your point is well taken.

---------------

There are those that would add Sound and Art and did, that why we have them. there are others would add more categories that we current ly don't track. So let's not pretend that Ace, myself or anyone else has a monopoly on what is or is not important data. I certainly have no wish nor desire, unlike some to turn this into Database by Skip, that is MY LOCAL. I wnat the database accessible by ALL uasers not simply the elitist majority.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
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Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
If you build your links on the credited person's name (or "most common name") and birth date, your links would function properly regardless of the credits system being used.


I didn't mean that kind of linking. I meant you couldn't look up what movies Akira Kurosawa directed because the program wouldn't know what is and isn't a director credit. Granted, we don't have that feature now without plug-ins, but it would make it impossible to use it even there.

a simple search utility with selectable filters with a proper linking system based on a credited persons name is not a difficult thing to create. Talking Ken into it may be another thing altogether.

How many times have we discussed this very point, pal?
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
Posted:
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Quoting reybr:
Quote:
Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
I fail to understand why an open credit would create more problems with these profiles than it would for any of the others


The current system works for all languages regardless of what language the credits are in. A person that understand the credits of a foreign movie, enters it into DVDProfiler in the correct slot (Director, Art Director, whatever). Because of the translation files, that slot can be Director for one user and Regissør for another user. The underlying data is still the same. We lose this ability with open credits, so it will be just Regissør for all users, if that is what is entered into the database.

Also if you translate the crew roles to the language of your locality, you are moving away from the idea that open credits should be a copy of what the credits actually are.

Another point is that I can easily contribute to a Swedish, Danish, Portuguese, British or Canadian locality with the current system. Especially for English language movies. With your suggestion of translations that should be agreed upon within that locality (As if that is gonna happen), this will be virtually impossible and the smaller localities will suffer even more since I no longer can contribute to Portuguese localities because I don't know the language.


It's nice to know that shoehorning actually works for somebody. Until your post, I was unaware that it worked to the positive anywhere.  In the "multiple language" localities the current force-feeding seems to be what you would want in order to resolve conflict with other users in those areas.  This isn't the case for a film in it's "home" language though (English in US or UK and the like).
Dan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,334
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Quoting DarklyNoon:
Quote:
Excuse moi,

I like to have one, only ONE reason, why anyone of the contributors should listen to people who are not contributing at all ?
I really would like to understand what the agenda is, of those people, who keep everything local, do nothing that helps the community...and still they are trying to force their opinions , their rules onto the guys that are keeping this whole program going...THE CONTRIBUTORS!!!

For me it seems that you must be really, really bored.

Donnie


I am a contributor... and I want (preferably limited) open credits. As it is now I barely touch crew credits as it is done now... but if we went to a type what you see system then even I could feel comfortable contributing even more crew credits then I do now.

Not to mention there is many other people that are voting for the option that is not participating in the discussion how do you know they are not contributors as well?
Pete
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