Quoting Merrik:

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don't go messing it up Mr!!! 

LOL

Quoting CharlieM:

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Show me here where is says they must be together.

It hasn't been demonstrated that those individuals were cast members.  They've been credited in the Crew section, so there is a strong presumption that they were crew.  It seems reasonable that you would have to provide strong proof to contradict the self-evident Crew status of those entities.

Do any of them have any other acting credits?

I understand the point Kathy has made about "start/end/not at all," I just can't quite bring myself to agree that someone actually categorised in the crew section is a member of the cast and deserving of acting credits - I'll accept what's been said about puppeteers and tootle off to bed

Are puppeeters treated this way because of their skill and high profile of their efforts?

Night all.  I enjoyed the debates 

I think our conflict entails 2 separate

1.  trying to establish cast and crew from the positioning of the affected people within the credits

2.  Establishing cast and crew by definition

My opinion, positioning of names within a scrolling list should not determine whether a person is cast or crew.  That is an arbitrary standard that can change from one movie to the next, and leads to arguments and endless discussions (see discussion of stunt people)

that would be like saying that a crew member that is listed as vfx supervisor should not be listed because he is in the production list instead of the post production list where he belongs.  We do not know why any credit list is put together, and should not make assumption.

We should Define what they are.  Here is a start

A film crew -  group of people hired by a production company for the purpose of producing a film or motion picture.

A film cast -  the actors who appear in front of the camera or provide voices for characters in the film

And by this method, the Parade Participants are cast.


In my mind there is only one set of credits that might remotely deserve a cross over; Stunt people and stand-ins.

Charlie

Generally an actor or Cast  has lines which are spoken. Did Parade participants have any lines or dialog...answer NO. So they are not actors and that is why they were NOT included in the cast list. Not at all unlike additional Voices.

Where is it established that cast have to have spoken lines to be included?  I've seen people included in the credits who are extras with no lines.  Like, Woman in Blue Dress or something like that. 

I think I've seen a movie where there was a character in a lot of scenes, addressed by name, who didn't say anything.  I just can't remember what movie that was now.

Quoting Kathy:

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Spoken lines are irrelevant - e.g. Silent Movie.

That's right...I forgot about silent movies.  I just looked at one of the few I have, and their is a cast there even though none of them utter a peep.

You guys need to knock it off. You obviously have zero idea what the intent of the guidelines were when they were first written in 1983, so you have no clue what you are talking about. 

If Skip says that unless an actor has lines, they shouldn't be credited, who are we to argue? We don't know what the intent was, so we can't be trusted with the big decisions, okay?

Now get cracking on removing all of those cast members that don't have lines.

On a side note, in Nell, Jodie Foster has lines, but they are illegible for much of the movie. Should we remove her completely, or is there a way to give her a halfcredit (IIRC, she is a little more legible by the end of the film)? Perhaps give her an "Uncredited" as a happy medium? I'm looking for your master guidance on this, Skippy. Thanks in advance! 

Quoting Winston Smith:

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Additionalcast is far better than Additional voices,in my experience additionalvoices are just a melange of noise, indistinguishable and unidentifiiable. At leat an Additional Actor can be seen.

Just as an aside here, there are a lot of animation features & shows that list Additional Voices.  Quite often only the main characters will have the actors credited to roles, and the "supporting cast" (for lack of a better term here) will simply be listed under a credit such as Additional Voices.  These are certainly NOT a melange of noise, and are certainly distinguishable.  I can understand an objection to a listing such as ADR Group, which may often be providing voices for crowd scenes and the like and therefore may be viewed more a 'sound effect' than a cast member, but I would vehemently oppose the elimination of such listings as Additional Voices, simply from an animation credits standpoint.