Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
You still have not answered my question, Neill. I understand your logic. But what HARM is done?

I believe I have answered this over and over again.

Harm is too strong a word in my opinion...but, I don't think it adds anything.

Currently (as you mention) it could result in double-dividers which is absolutely awful IMO.
I personally feel it 'clutters' the already messy Art section with even more text.
I don't think it adds pertinent information (exception as previously mentioned).

But, as stated, if Ken wants to make the field count for dividers longer and wants us to include this information I will do it.

I don't like clutter, messiness or wasting my time adding redundant information. But, hey, I already do that now by adding Costume Supervisors, Sound Crew and Subtitles to profiles - none of which is of the least importance to me but might be to someone else.

But, as things currently stand I don't HAVE to enter this useless information into dividers so I won't do it. I already do quite enough 'extra' work for others to benefit from.
If Ken wants it then that's fine and I will do it; but until then I won't. Simple. Sorry.



P.S. Purely as an aside.....Skip (& other Region 1 people) are you seeing a lot of crew being updated with dividers?
I'm in the UK and the majority of my collection is Region 2 and I'm not seeing any coming up. I see a lot of the new Cast dividers being added but no-one seems to be doing the crew. I realise my 5,000+ collection isn't huge in the scheme of things but I would expect to see some.
If I'm honest (now I think about it) this probably adds to my "I'm not going to do it unless I have to" attitude regarding dividers. I'm the only one doing them (or so it seems) so why should I do them in a way I disagree with unless the rules/Ken tell me I have to?   

I am seeing and swapping a significant number of Dividers Neil. I will NOT accept any update that does not include the Full credit, it's simply (1) inconsistent with Rules that we list the data exactly as we see it and (2) it does not bring clarity to the data. I also will not accept any update which does not include Actual role information in teh notes so that I acn update my data accurately. I can't wait for Custom Roles to become Contributable.

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
No, Martian, I am not looking for a fight. I stated my position and explained why i think it is the best way to go. I see no one presenting any sort similar argument for your side, "eye of the beholder" is not an argument. So, what HARM is done by using the Full Credit. None that I can see, However I can see lots of harm and further loss of clarity following your method, it certainly does nothing to add clarity, context or value to the data. So can you create such an argument, frankly I don't think you can, I don't think you can go beyond "eye of the beholder". Not trying to create a fight, but a valid argument...absolutely.

This isn't 'my' side not 'my' method.  I already stated that we should enter the entire credit so, yea, it seems you are looking for a fight.

You made the statement, "And takes away valuable data."  All I was pointing out is, what is valuable to you, may not be valuable to someone else.  Once again, please read what I actually wrote, not what you think I wrote.  Otherwise, there is no point in responding. 

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
No one will provide an answer. I can only assume that there is NO HARM done by using the complete credit. <shrugs>

Ok...are you selectively reading posts here.

I gave you a reason a few posts ago.

I won't repeat myself because I assume you can find it yourself! But please don't say no one will provide you with an answer when someone has!

I wouldn't call any of that harm, it does no damage to the database, Neill. Those are viewpoints and valid ones for you and i understand them but it still does no harm to the Online database, while not including the complete credit does do harm as i have outlined in some detail. Remember, my friend, the issue is the Online, where is the most information of value....to the Online. I would say the same thing, Neill if i agreed with your position. Just as I did when you first talked about Company dividers ocver a year ago and i supported your opinion. But particularly now that we have so much data being shoehorned into one Job role, the full credit becomes almost more than just valuable, it becomes almost crucial to add definition and clarity to the Crew data we are capturing.

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
"Take Crew Credits from the film credits only; list names exactly  as they are in the credits."

Thanks for point this out.

Crew Credits does NOT mean dividers.

Martian's rule clearly state 'take company names.

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
I wouldn't call any of that harm, it does no damage to the database, Neill. Those are viewpoints and valid ones for you and i understand them but it still does no harm to the Online database, while not including the complete credit does do harm as i have outlined in some detail.

This is just how you feel about it.

I personally think double-dividers and cluttering up the Art section further does add 'harm' to the database (although as I've said I think Harm is too strong a word for either of our viewpoints).

Personally, I think this discussion has run it's course (and I can only imagine how boring it is for people reading it!!!).

You have clearly stated your viewpoint and I have clearly stated mine. We disagree vehemently with each other and that's absolutely fine.

Continually repeating ourselves with slightly different phrasing is not going to make our points any clearer.

I really think a simple comment from Ken would solve this issue.

Name ILM Role Visual Effects By

Come on Neill. Stick to the Rules. We don't use that format in the Dividers but the data is the same