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Em-dash heads-up (Causing erroneous contributions)
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantSgtDetritus007
It's inconceivable!
Registered: October 23, 2008
United States Posts: 36
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Quoting MikaLove:

Quote:
I think this whole issue is about mutual respect for that people are from different parts of the world, and not just one country

We simply need and have to respect each other and where we come from rather than imposing things on each other that are very unfamiliar and strange to them.
...
WE are the community, and it is multicultural.


Quoting Addicted2DVD:

Quote:
Exactly... we are talking about Region 1 US profiles here... You can't be surprised that the profiles follows  the US standards. Mainly because they are US Releases... and the overviews themselves are most likely being done by people in the US.... so they will most likely use US standards as well.

We can't contribute profiles worrying about how someone outside the US not liking the standards that the US uses just because they either imported the R1 release or are using the region one profiles for whatever reason.



Dude (Mika)... I get where you're coming from, I get your frustration.

But, you know, on top of everything everyone else has said here, this program itself is an American production. US program, US developer, I haven't counted them but probably mostly US users entering mostly US films and US TV shows the vast majority of which are US productions.

Pete, Hal, Max, Kathy, TheDarkKnight and the rest are all very wise when it comes to the ways of The Force (sorry, that's an Americanism—it means they know how DVDProfiler works, flaws and all). They are from a different part of the world from you, respect that.

We Americans are accused constantly of being "Cowboys" and "Mavericks", especially by Europeans (East and West). What do you expect? Our great country is made up of the unwanted from all over the world—all the people who stood up one day and said, “This blows, I'm moving to America.” Add that attitude up over a couple hundred years, and viola, you've got an entire country full of people who don't really care about the rest of the world's opinions of us. Could our attitude be better? Possibly. But the point is, as a whole, we don't really care. We're happy with what we have and who we are. We have a popular saying over here for whiners and complainers...“Deal with it.” Or don't. Your choice.

You want to do your own personal thing in Sweden, fine. Just stop arguing that it's wrong to not do it your way, please. The rules are the rules, warts and all.

I drove a BMW for many years when I got out of college. Was it different from my Chevrolet's? Absolutely. I embraced the differences for what they were, it offered things I couldn't get in an American car. I drove a Volvo for over 10 years. Different? Yes. I loved it. It was expensive as hell to have repaired, but I kept driving it.

You need to either embrace this program and its community for what it is, or I suggest you point your browser to www.invelos.se.co and use whatever programs you find there. *sarcasm* warning!

I don't post a lot on these forums, but I do read them. I gain a lot of insight into how I should make my contributions in the community-accepted way of doing things. All the aforementioned members and others have been more than polite and timely in their answers to my questions about the community-accepted manner in which things should be done. I do laugh out loud some nights when I see threads like this—where one member is completely intransigent in their view of how things should work and never stops. You may not find it humorous, but I promise you many of us read this thing, smile or laugh, and think, "Really? Again? More with the rants?" You get p*ssed, we laugh.

----------------------

I've made this post extremely long on purpose, using the tools made readily available to one-and-all, right here in the provided Forum comment-posting-thingy. No Notepad, no cut/copy/paste, no Microsoft Word, no alternate operating systems, no browser-cache-clearing, no cookie-washing. One browser, one laptop, one keyboard, one webpage. It didn't even require a Macintosh with OS 10.3.9¾ "Bobcat". If you'll open your eyes and look immediately down from these very words as you type them, approximately ½" (that's about 127mm ), there exists a large rather blue-colored button marked Preview. Click that occasionally—it refreshes your page, while at the exact same moment in the timeline of the vast Space-Time Continuum some of us like to call "Reality" it reminds the internet and the forum servers that you actually still exist and haven't collapsed dead on your keyboard. Amazing.

It is my sincerest hope that my use of any of the following words and/or punctuation marks did not offend you: American slang, the King's English, dashes, em-dashes, ellipses, quotes, italics, bold, parentheses, typesetter's quotes (did y'all notice those?), spaces, periods, commas, apostrophes, the French word viola, slashes (either forward or backward), emoticons, and my shameless use of the word y'all in a public place. I'm sure my brilliant mates from across the pond will forgive my lack of time to spell properly words such as humourous and colour. I did not seek written permission from LucasFilm to use the phrase "The Force™". If any of you are offended...I don't apologise (<UK version )...deal with it.  

Sheesh....

Mike in TX

I couldn't find an appropriate place to properly use an en-dash in there, so here goes:
Rest in Peace, Groucho Marx (1890–1977), you are truly missed my friend.  Sorry, couldn't resist.
“Practically perfect people never permit sentiment to muddle their thinking.” — M. Poppins, 1964
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
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Quoting SgtDetritus007:
Quote:
...the French word viola....


Yves isn't going to like that one....correct spelling is "voila"! 
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantCalebAndCo
Ralphie shot first.
Registered: October 6, 2008
United States Posts: 1,932
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting SgtDetritus007:
Quote:
...the French word viola....


Yves isn't going to like that one....correct spelling is "voila"! 

Now you've done it, Hal; it is correctly spelled voilà.

 Last edited: by CalebAndCo
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantSgtDetritus007
It's inconceivable!
Registered: October 23, 2008
United States Posts: 36
Posted:
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting SgtDetritus007:
Quote:
...the French word viola....


Yves isn't going to like that one....correct spelling is "voila"! 


Damn American public education system...it's got me all screwed up!
Je suis désolé, Yves!!
“Practically perfect people never permit sentiment to muddle their thinking.” — M. Poppins, 1964
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTheDarkKnight
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 762
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Quoting CalebAndCo:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting SgtDetritus007:
Quote:
...the French word viola....


Yves isn't going to like that one....correct spelling is "voila"! 

Now you've done it, Hal; it is correctly spelled voilà.



That depends, did you take it from the credits as credited? 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantCalebAndCo
Ralphie shot first.
Registered: October 6, 2008
United States Posts: 1,932
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Quoting TheDarkKnight:
Quote:
Quoting CalebAndCo:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting SgtDetritus007:
Quote:
...the French word viola....


Yves isn't going to like that one....correct spelling is "voila"! 

Now you've done it, Hal; it is correctly spelled voilà.



That depends, did you take it from the credits as credited? 

It was in all caps. 
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
Posted:
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Quoting CalebAndCo:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting SgtDetritus007:
Quote:
...the French word viola....


Yves isn't going to like that one....correct spelling is "voila"! 

Now you've done it, Hal; it is correctly spelled voilà.



Touché!  (I actually knew that, but had a brain fart!)
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJimmy S
Registered: March 15, 2007
Canada Posts: 1,982
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting SgtDetritus007:
Quote:
...the French word viola....


Yves isn't going to like that one....correct spelling is "voila"! 

viola is sure not the same thing, but it's a french word. So Yves won't be angry for that one
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorSpikyCactus
I have a Gold Star!
Registered: July 16, 2010
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 526
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Very amusing. 

Quoting SgtDetritus007:

Quote:
It is my sincerest hope that my use of any of the following words and/or punctuation marks did not offend you: American slang, the King's English, dashes, em-dashes, ellipses, quotes, italics, bold, parentheses, typesetter's quotes (did y'all notice those?), spaces, periods, commas, apostrophes, the French word viola, slashes (either forward or backward), emoticons, and my shameless use of the word y'all in a public place.


I thought those of us who were taught how to speak and write by the Queen might find a translation of this part of particular value:

Community-led language enhancement (in America), the Queen’s English, minus signs, long dashes, three full stops in a row, speech marks, leaning type, heavy, brackets, American interpretation of logical speech mark use rules, gaps, full stops, commas (yes!), inverted commas, foreign gobbledygook, solidus or reverse solidus, smilies and everyone.

The irony of all this is that the majority of the world's computer using population relies on Bill Gates to spell and decide on grammar for them anyway.

Okay, can we talk about football, petrol and pavements now please?
Do you ever find yourself striving for perfection with an almost worthless attempt at it?  Guttermouth "Lemon Water".  Also, I include in my Profiler database VHS tapes, audio DVDs, audio books (digital, cassette and CD), video games (digital, DVD and CD) and 'enhanced' CDs with video tracks on them, as well as films and TV I've bought digitally.  So I'm an anarchist, deal with it.  Just be thankful I don't include most of my records and CDs etc in it too; don't think I haven't been tempted...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLewis_Prothero
Strength Through Unity
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 6,730
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Quoting SpikyCactus:
Quote:
Okay, can we talk about football, petrol and pavements now please?


Not about petrol, this might easily become political.
Agree on the other two and like to add "Trees" as replacement for "Petrol".
It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?


Registrant since 05/22/2003
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJimmy S
Registered: March 15, 2007
Canada Posts: 1,982
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Quoting SpikyCactus:
Quote:

Okay, can we talk about football, petrol and pavements now please?

But wich one? Canadian football, American football or the one you call football but we call soccer 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTheDarkKnight
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 762
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There is only one Fußball.......................................
 Last edited: by TheDarkKnight
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,201
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Quoting MikaLove:
Quote:
If you the think it's so important to have the "American em-dash", then make another contribution...!

Maybe I missed something but isn't that exactly what Pete did...make a contribution to add the"American em-dash"?
Quote:
Don't tell me that I am wrong, when my knowledge of English is better than many others'. For example.

Again, maybe I missed something, but aren't you the one who told Pete he was wrong, when the fact is he was correct?
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,201
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
The Rules say to use the "standard capitalization rules for the locality of the DVD" when converting all caps to mixed case in the Overview.

It only stands to reason that if we're using rules of the locality of the DVD for that purpose, that we would use the rules of the locality for dashes as well.  If you're working on a Region 1, U.S. locality profile it should conform to the Region 1, U.S. locality rules.  That only makes sense.

Just like with all caps conversion, if Yves (surfeur51) told me that I had done a French locality Overview incorrectly, based on his superior understanding of French rules, I would immediately acquiesce to his knowledge and correct it after he told me how it should be done.

It seems that this is simply common courtesy to the native speaking people of the DVD locality.

This, what hal wrote, is what I would call respect and "accepting the fact that SINCE we are from different parts of the world, we have different standards."  If you are working on a profile for a locality other than your own, defer to the superior understanding of the person who actually lives in that locality.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
France Posts: 4,479
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Quoting SgtDetritus007:
Quote:
Damn American public education system...it's got me all screwed up!
Je suis désolé, Yves!!

No problem 
Images from movies
 Last edited: by surfeur51
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMikaLove
Knowledge is Power
Registered: May 2, 2009
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 490
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Quoting SgtDetritus007:
Quote:
But, you know, on top of everything everyone else has said here, this program itself is an American production. US program, US developer, I haven't counted them but probably mostly US users entering mostly US films and US TV shows the vast majority of which are US productions.


That doesn't mean that it all must be done in the American way, just because there is some majority here of users and that the software is American.
It's as easy as that.
If you really want to see me angry, you will tell me that I'm wrong about this and that majority matters.

I have my grammar knowledge and at least for Euro releases that must be what is input.
That's why I say it's at least wrong for Euro releases to use em-dash, if it's not clear that it really is the third dash. And still no one has commented on that some fonts are limited.

I voted no just today on a Swedish release (partly) because of an em-dash.
I think the erroneous use of the em-dash in DVDP, for non-American releases especially, is because of where the button is placed! It's placed before the en-dash button – because the em-dash may be more common in American English.
And that some people have limited grammar knowledge.

I can definitely agree, understand and see that some of my arguments are not at all waterproof. I honestly don't even know what I think myself. Just that I know that in Europe, we don't use the em-dash. And because we don't, it doesn't feel SAFE to input whatever dash. EXCEPT the one WE should be familiar with due to our grammar. And that can only be the en-dash.
I can accept that you use em-dash in America, but I had not read anything about how common the em-dash is, in contemporary society, so to say.
It's also fair to assume that I know more about English than you about my language or most other languages in Europe. Just as a side note.
If you have the proper knowledge, of course you'd be welcome to modify a Swedish release.
Why else do we educate ourselves, and what to do with that knowledge?

Bottom line, I give up and can accept that you use an em-dash in the U.S.
But I will assume it is an error if it is used in a European language text. As well as the use of a regular dash, which is more common to see.
However, if a dash looks too long or too short, I will correct it.

FYI I have read up on the subject on Wikipedia now.
I was told (among other things) the em-dash is very common and in Swedish (among other languages I would assume) the em-dash is never used.
Either way, in schools in Europe, when we study English, we are not told about the em-dash and thus we don't know about it or how to use it. We substitute the em-dash with our en-dash, although we don't call it an en-dash.

What messes things up, is that the em-dash is rarely surrounded by spaces, which the dashes in overviews always are. That would indicate to me, that we are seeing en-dashes.
Another fact is that the most often contributed dash is the hyphen, which indicates that people lack this grammar knowledge.

What it all boils down to is that people have varying grammar knowledge. And that the grammar is not the same in the whole world. I think you rather need that to sink in than to say "write what you see", because you can't deny that A. you know the grammar well enough to say that and B. you are not subjective because you (only) know of the American English grammar.

Hence: I know my grammar so to me the en-dash is what I also see and feel confident in using, based on that knowledge. If the dash is really wide, I should suspect it being an em-dash (from now on) since I have been told about the use of that dash in English, but maybe in the U.S. in particular.
But I may also be confused that the em-dash(?) is not surrounded by spaces, because that is quite common.
 Last edited: by MikaLove
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