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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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AB Svensk Filmindustri or Svensk Filmindustri? |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting MikaLove: Quote:
A few productions I have in my collection state "SVT Drama" as the production company, but now we all know that they equal "Sveriges Television". Completely different. I mean, SVT Drama is not a company. They (Sveriges Television) just call themselves that when they make drama programs or films. I can't swear that I'm right about that, however...
I'm sorry but that just isn't going to stand. If the credit is SVT Drama, then that is how we enter it. We don't make up fantasy credits just because we personally disagree with them. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: May 2, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 490 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
Quoting MikaLove:
Quote:
A few productions I have in my collection state "SVT Drama" as the production company, but now we all know that they equal "Sveriges Television". Completely different. I mean, SVT Drama is not a company. They (Sveriges Television) just call themselves that when they make drama programs or films. I can't swear that I'm right about that, however...
I'm sorry but that just isn't going to stand. If the credit is SVT Drama, then that is how we enter it. We don't make up fantasy credits just because we personally disagree with them. I said I'm not sure about that. I have done a little research and it seems that SVT Drama is some kind of production company, albeit a small one. But SVT is not correct. I have changed all the entries in th DB of the titles that I have, to Sveriges Television instead. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Not so small, they are known for co-producing theatrical films. It's probably an in-house production company but the legal status doesn't matter to us, what does matter is the on-screen credit themselves. Anyone looking at them should be able to enter them verbatim without consulting an outside source. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Quoting MikaLove:
Quote:
But still you can't say that SVT should be credited as SVT as we found out that they are to be called Sveriges Television, because that is their official name.
Still "SVT" is what they use on DVD covers, etc.
Maybe,, in some years, people won't know that SVT means Sveriges Television.
In that you are quite right, the rules specifically tell us: "Do not abbreviate Studio or Media Company names." I don't think that is what the rules say. They say that if the credit is Walt Disney Pictures, you should not type Disney. Or WHV instead of Warner Home Video. But if the credit is SVT, the rules do not tell us to enter something else than what we actually see. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with you Kino, I have tried explaining this to Mika. These are changes which are acceptable locally but should NOT be Contributed in any way. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,733 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
These are changes which are acceptable locally but should NOT be Contributed in any way. It may be worth pointing out that the rules aren't as black and white as you'd like them to be. For one, while that could have easily been the case, the rules do not state to enter studio names "as credited". Instead, the rules go out of their way to try and standardize studio entries as much as possible, even referring to the forums for "information about correct listings of studios and media companies". There are even some contribution filters in play that, on occasion, literally prohibit "as credited" studio entry. All in all, I'm just saying that you don't get to unilaterally decide what should or what should not be contributed in this regard. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Forum Moderator: Removed | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
| | Registered: May 2, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 490 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
I don't think that is what the rules say. They say that if the credit is Walt Disney Pictures, you should not type Disney. Or WHV instead of Warner Home Video. But if the credit is SVT, the rules do not tell us to enter something else than what we actually see. So what's the difference between the Disney logo and the SVT logo? Most often, people write SF or SVT because they see that logo. And in the other cases, SVT and SF are just PLAIN abbreviations. It has already been enough talked about in this topic. My bet is that SVT and SF uses their "text" credits, as to reflect their logos. But it's still NOT their official company names. If it's not official even on their own respective sites, abbreviations are not correct. If so, Fox would be OK to contribute as well. Or just any abbreviation or variant of any company, just because "that is what you see". And in that way, we have a DB full of garbage which is impossible to sort. What Prof says, I don't care.  |
| | Registered: May 2, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 490 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
Not so small, they are known for co-producing theatrical films. It's probably an in-house production company but the legal status doesn't matter to us, what does matter is the on-screen credit themselves. Anyone looking at them should be able to enter them verbatim without consulting an outside source. Actually they even seem to have an office in Göteborg/Gothenburg. I'd say that is enough for me to "allow" it in the DB. But not SVT... SVT e.q.u.a.l.s Sveriges Television in a completely different way. But no need to discuss SVT anymore. Or SF. Had it been the BBC, I wouldn't have even started the discussion. Why not turn it around? Why spell out companies at all? Bah.  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
These are changes which are acceptable locally but should NOT be Contributed in any way.
It may be worth pointing out that the rules aren't as black and white as you'd like them to be. For one, while that could have easily been the case, the rules do not state to enter studio names "as credited". Instead, the rules go out of their way to try and standardize studio entries as much as possible, even referring to the forums for "information about correct listings of studios and media companies". There are even some contribution filters in play that, on occasion, literally prohibit "as credited" studio entry. All in all, I'm just saying that you don't get to unilaterally decide what should or what should not be contributed in this regard. It is, indeed, a matter of perspective. Unfortunately, that perspective seems to to be colored by what it is we want. For me, correct doesn't mean 'common' or 'standardized'. For me, the correct name is the name used at the time the film was made. The use of the word, at least in my opinion, is to allow us to enter 'Universal Pictures', when the only thing on the screen is the Universal logo. As for the filters, as far as I know, there are only two and they both serve the same purpose...to give us the correct name for Twentieth Century Fox. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
I don't think that is what the rules say. They say that if the credit is Walt Disney Pictures, you should not type Disney. Or WHV instead of Warner Home Video. But if the credit is SVT, the rules do not tell us to enter something else than what we actually see. Agreed. If the actual text based credit is SVT Drama, then that is what we enter. I just purchased 'The Office' on DVD. The production studio is credited as NBC Universal Television. Even though I know that NBC is short for National Broadcasting Company, I would never enter it that way because they are never credited that way. We have enough grey areas, I don't see the need to create a new one. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting MikaLove: Quote:
So what's the difference between the Disney logo and the SVT logo? Most often, people write SF or SVT because they see that logo.
And in the other cases, SVT and SF are just PLAIN abbreviations. It has already been enough talked about in this topic.
My bet is that SVT and SF uses their "text" credits, as to reflect their logos. But it's still NOT their official company names. If it's not official even on their own respective sites, abbreviations are not correct.
I'm not talking about company logos, they can be seen as symbols representing the "correct" name and we allow for that. I'm talking about written credits when there can be no doubt about the literal content. If the only credit is a logo, I would be inclined to use the "correct" name, which we have established to be Sveriges Television. But in the rare cases when the written credits have only SVT, I would never change that into something else. Maybe in my personal db, but never for the online. Because that would not reflect the real data, which is what we are trying to capture here. Not invented data that we picked because it was convenient. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: May 2, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 490 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting KinoNiki:
Quote:
I don't think that is what the rules say. They say that if the credit is Walt Disney Pictures, you should not type Disney. Or WHV instead of Warner Home Video. But if the credit is SVT, the rules do not tell us to enter something else than what we actually see.
Agreed. If the actual text based credit is SVT Drama, then that is what we enter. I just purchased 'The Office' on DVD. The production studio is credited as NBC Universal Television. Even though I know that NBC is short for National Broadcasting Company, I would never enter it that way because they are never credited that way.
We have enough grey areas, I don't see the need to create a new one. But there is a vast difference between NBC and SVT, as NBC's abbreviation is official, while SVT is unofficial. That's my standpoint and others in this thread have already agreed with me, as well as put forth very valid arguments. Such as visiting the companies' respective websites. SVT isn't consequent about calling themselves SVT. So what you see on a screen needs to be "translated", in these rare cases. If we DON'T do that, there will instead be a whole new confusion as of what to enter into the DB. Because most often, BOTH Sveriges Television/SVT or Svensk Filmindustri/SF is written. Just on different places. Like credits/cover. So to avoid this inconsistency from the companies themselves, we need to use what is official. NBC aren't like that. Because they are called NBC. But again, we already had this discussion and we have already, IMO, come to a conclusion which has already taken effect. I'm trying to find an example: For the TV-series "Ebba och Didrik", it's in the credits some logo which could be translated into "[Sveriges Television] Kanal 1 Drama", but on the cover, there's only the SVT logo. The only thing the logo shows is the number "1" and the word "Drama" next to it. SVT have changed channel names many times during their history. TV 1, TV1/TV 2, Kanal 1/TV 2, SVT 1/SVT 2. But they have always been under the same company: Sveriges Television. Kanal 1 was based in Stockholm, until they changed name to SVT 1 and TV 2 did as well (to SVT 2), to join competition with other channels. Kanal 1 produced some drama TV, and later they were called SVT Drama. So while SVT Drama is "some kind" of production company, SVT is still the main company, and they are still called Sveriges Television. The only "niche", is thus Kanal 1 Drama/SVT Drama or Sveriges Television in large and in general. SVT is not a singular company, in that sense. But it's simply an abbreviation of Sveriges Television. | | | | Last edited: by MikaLove |
| | Registered: May 2, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 490 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
Quoting MikaLove:
Quote:
So what's the difference between the Disney logo and the SVT logo? Most often, people write SF or SVT because they see that logo.
And in the other cases, SVT and SF are just PLAIN abbreviations. It has already been enough talked about in this topic.
My bet is that SVT and SF uses their "text" credits, as to reflect their logos. But it's still NOT their official company names. If it's not official even on their own respective sites, abbreviations are not correct.
I'm not talking about company logos, they can be seen as symbols representing the "correct" name and we allow for that. I'm talking about written credits when there can be no doubt about the literal content. If the only credit is a logo, I would be inclined to use the "correct" name, which we have established to be Sveriges Television. But in the rare cases when the written credits have only SVT, I would never change that into something else. Maybe in my personal db, but never for the online. Because that would not reflect the real data, which is what we are trying to capture here. Not invented data that we picked because it was convenient. And how do you know that a logo should be either translated into the full name Sveriges Television, or the abbreviation SVT? Sveriges Television is still in the DB, and since we know that SVT=Sveriges Television, can it bee seen as anything but an abbreviation? In no way SVT=Sveriges Television is an "invention". It sounds to me like you are trying to reason like Prof. Not really convincing arguments. |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,733 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
As for the filters, as far as I know, there are only two and they both serve the same purpose...to give us the correct name for Twentieth Century Fox. There's more (for instance related to Warner Bros.), but the key point is that I agree with you in that we need to use the correct name of the studio, whether it's Fox or any other. In this example, that correct name is indeed "Twentieth Century Fox". |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting MikaLove: Quote:
If we DON'T do that, there will instead be a whole new confusion as of what to enter into the DB. Because most often, BOTH Sveriges Television/SVT or Svensk Filmindustri/SF is written. Just on different places. Like credits/cover.
So to avoid this inconsistency from the companies themselves, we need to use what is official. There is no confusion here. The rules tell us that "the authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself." If there is a difference between the case and the credits, which isn't uncommon, the credits win. Quote:
But again, we already had this discussion and we have already, IMO, come to a conclusion which has already taken effect. I am not sure how you can say that as KinoNiki doesn't seem to agree with your conclusion...unless you are just ignoring disenting opinions. Quote:
So while SVT Drama is "some kind" of production company, SVT is still the main company, and they are still called Sveriges Television. It doesn't matter. We track the actual production company, not the main company. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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