Quoting TheMadMartian:

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I don't like it but, as I said earlier, it is more correct than your suggestion.

Yes, that's known as relativity.  It is in fact no more correct than putting "Guy" in the first name field.

BOTH are wrong.  Which is why neither can be done.

Quoting hal9g:

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Quoting TheMadMartian:

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I don't like it but, as I said earlier, it is more correct than your suggestion.

Yes, that's known as relativity.  It is in fact no more correct than putting "Guy" in the first name field.

BOTH are wrong.  Which is why neither can be done.

One uses actual credit data, the other does not.  While they are both wrong, because we are required to use the credit data, one is less so.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Quoting hal9g:

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No where do the Rules instruct us to enter someone's last name in the first name field, therefore, doing so is not accurate.

To be precise, there is no rule that instructs us to put somone's last name in the last name field either.  In fact, other than for first name only names, stage names and nicknames, the rules do not mention the fields at all.  So, while it is not accurate, it is not 'expressly forbidden by the rules'.

Oh, and I just thought of something...Ken has indicated that he intended Last Name to mean Sur Name, yet we put all Asian Sur Names in the first name field.  Seems to me that there is a precedent...hundreds, if not thousands...for entering the last name into the first name field. 

So, if I start submitting cast with the first name in the middle field and the last name in the first name field and the middle name in the last name field, I can be confident that you will vote yes, right?

It's amazing how you just keep arguing for something that you know is wrong.

Quoting hal9g:

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So, if I start submitting cast with the first name in the middle field and the last name in the first name field and the middle name in the last name field, I can be confident that you will vote yes, right?

No, you can't.  You have claimed that the rules do not allow this...I believe you stated that they 'expressly forbid it.'  I am simply pointing out that the rules are silent on this issue and that we do, in some cases, enter the last name into the first name field.

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It's amazing how you just keep arguing for something that you know is wrong.

Once again, because of program limitations, we have to do something that is wrong, in order to enter the data.  We do it for Asian names.  We did it for two films on a single sided disc.  Heck, we broke the rules completely for OMB and OCB.  Why you supported it, in at least two of those cases, but not this one, is beyond me.  As it sits right now, based your opinion, we can't enter him at all.  I don't see how that benefits anybody. 

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Quoting hal9g:

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So, if I start submitting cast with the first name in the middle field and the last name in the first name field and the middle name in the last name field, I can be confident that you will vote yes, right?

No, you can't.  You have claimed that the rules do not allow this...I believe you stated that they 'expressly forbid it.'  I am simply pointing out that the rules are silent on this issue and that we do, in some cases, enter the last name into the first name field.

Why not.  You claim it's not defined in the Rules, therefore, it can't be wrong to do it any way I wish.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Quoting hal9g:

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It's amazing how you just keep arguing for something that you know is wrong.

Once again, because of program limitations, we have to do something that is wrong, in order to enter the data.  We do it for Asian names.  We did it for two films on a single sided disc.  Heck, we broke the rules completely for OMB and OCB.  Why you supported it, in at least two of those cases, but not this one, is beyond me.  As it sits right now, based your opinion, we can't enter him at all.  I don't see how that benefits anybody. 

Because this can be fixed very easily by going back to the original way the rules were written.  This never had to happen in the first place.  OMB & OCB  were defined in the text and anyone with intelligence could interpret what roles were to be represented.  It's hardly the same.

So now your argument is that we break the rules for some things why not this?  Well, why not any other field, if that's the way you feel.  The precendent is set that we can break the rules if it suits us at the moment.  Rather than trying to get the Rules fixed, let's just do it the way we want to because we don't want to lose the data.  Why have you not entered Supervising Producers in the past?  Why are they different?

Let's get the Rule fixed instead of corrupting the data just to get it entered!

Quoting T!M:

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Quoting hal9g:

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Quoting T!M:

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And any name consisting of only one word goes into the first name field.

Can you show me where that is defined in the Rules?

I can do even better than that: it's defined in the program itself. We simply can't do it any other way. By design, any name consisting of only one word has to go into the first name field.

But his name is not just one word.  In fact it's three words: "Wing Comdr. Gibson"! Exactly as credited.

Quoting T!M:

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Quoting hal9g:

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But his name is not just one word.  In fact it's three words: "Wing Comdr. Gibson"! Exactly as credited.

You feel "Wing Comdr." is part of the name? Not according to me, and not according to the rules.

And nobody's arguing about "exactly as credited" - we get "exactly as credited" under any circumstance. No matter what, the "credited as" field will hold "Wing Comdr. Gibson".

Nor is his name "Gibson"!

Quoting T!M:

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Quoting hal9g:

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Nor is his name "Gibson"!

It is for DVD Profiler purposes! There's the key: you still can't shake off your desire for "real" or "correct" names. But they don't matter. For DVD Profiler purposes, the "name" is the most-credited form. Well, that's "Gibson".

Yes, unfortunately, but only because Ken decided to change the Rules and create this unintended consequence.  It was not his "DVDP name" until last week.  Now we have a mess!

Putting "Gibson" in the first name field is not the proper solution.