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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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 Color of Money voters, can you check your discs? (Anamorphic or Non?) (Locked) |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: September 18, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,650 |
| | Posted: | | | | The fact the user did not document his change to YOUR satisfaction, does not negate the fact you tried to change it back to INCORRECT info.
I can agree that the documentation could've/should've been better but that doesn't excuse a contribution knowingly incorrect. Instead you could've/should've just PM'ed that user and requested better documentation in future. |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 |  Posts: 823 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Tell me Skip, how do you defend this out and out lie in your contribution notes?
Quote:
DvddECRYPTER, dvdsHRIN and POWERDVD all see this as 16X9 anamorphic
Is this the kind of substantiation we should accept in order to vote "yes" to a contribution? Wow, very crazy and disruptive user. The fact that Invelos does not remove this user must mean that they support this type of treatment to their customers. If they don't do anything about it and don't care, why should anyone want to contribute if they are going to be subjected to this? | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting samuelrichardscott: Quote:
The fact the user did not document his change to YOUR satisfaction, does not negate the fact you tried to change it back to INCORRECT info. Indeed...While the rules do say, "include your verification method," they do not specify what that method should be. They don't say, "use DVDDecrypter, or any other tool, to determine whether a disc is anamorphic." Since they don't, visual verification is allowed. Is it perfect? No, but that doesn't mean incorrect data can be submitted simply because someone doesn't like that method. Quote:
I can agree that the documentation could've/should've been better but that doesn't excuse a contribution knowingly incorrect. Instead you could've/should've just PM'ed that user and requested better documentation in future. Indeed, yet again. In the 'Before You Contribute' section, we are told, "Make sure your contributions add significant value to the database." Any contribution that changes good data to bad, no matter the reason, violates that rule. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,491 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Grendell: Quote:
Wow, very crazy and disruptive user. The fact that Invelos does not remove this user must mean that they support this type of treatment to their customers. If they don't do anything about it and don't care, why should anyone want to contribute if they are going to be subjected to this? I can't decide in watching this post or the Charlie Sheen News at 6 .... BTW interesting to see that the Canadian region of this same UPC same titled Movie has no mention of Enhanced on the back cover ... Guess 'we' know how to manufacture a proper cover art jacket ..... | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry | | | | Last edited: by widescreenforever |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 599 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting widescreenforever: Quote:
Quoting Grendell:
Quote:
Wow, very crazy and disruptive user. The fact that Invelos does not remove this user must mean that they support this type of treatment to their customers. If they don't do anything about it and don't care, why should anyone want to contribute if they are going to be subjected to this?
I can't decide in watching this post or the Charlie Sheen News at 6 .... I'd stick with Charlie Sheen, at least he's fresh. This crap is just a repeat of the atypical behavior of our own little rascal.  |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Hardly, pal. But appreciate your looking. As I said those notes were OLD, and I didn't look to see where they came from because it wasn't relevant. So, according to you, you didn't even bother to check. You just copied some notes and said you did. You lied in an effort to put bad data back into the system, then hid behind a ridiculous argument about rules, when you broke them yourself. Good job. Quoting widescreenforeve: Quote:
Guess 'we' know how to manufacture a proper cover art jacket ..... That made me  for real. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Wow, this has gotten completely out of hand.
I will agree, Skip introducing a contribution to change good data into bad, was bad form. And rightly should have gotten declined.
He does have a valid point. When I first started, rules were rules, and for the most part, if you did not follow the rules, you got told.
Now, it seems that the rules are more of a guideline. Apparently, true documentation is optional.
Lets say a DVD cover states a movie had a 129 minute runtime. I put that movie in, and when the movie starts, I start a stopwatch. I watch the movie, and at the end I stop the stopwatch. Wen I look down it says 2hrs 9 min 32 sec. Well obviously the cover is wrong and I make a contribution change to "correct" the runtime and give my verification method (basically nothing more than personal observation). Most people would tell me that is not valid evidence and would get no votes.
How is "personal observation" a valid documentation? When have we eased up on our own standards of what good documentation is?
We seem to get more and more of that, on things that there are tools and other physical evidence that should be used.
In this instance, It is non-anamorphic, as presented by ample evidence presented here (evidence that should have been given on the original change)
I guess the question that I really have.
What documentation do we accept or not accept, and how lax do we become in our standards?
Charlie |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Grendell: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Tell me Skip, how do you defend this out and out lie in your contribution notes?
Quote:
DvddECRYPTER, dvdsHRIN and POWERDVD all see this as 16X9 anamorphic
Is this the kind of substantiation we should accept in order to vote "yes" to a contribution?
Wow, very crazy and disruptive user. The fact that Invelos does not remove this user must mean that they support this type of treatment to their customers. If they don't do anything about it and don't care, why should anyone want to contribute if they are going to be subjected to this? What treatment is that, Grendell? Do you mean the fact that I pointed out that Skip placed a bald-faced lie in his contribution Notes in order to change good data to bad data. NONE of those tools say that this film is "16X9 anamorphic"!!!! Lying in your contribution notes is an excellent reason for revoking contribution privileges. Of course, when you are blinded by your avid defense of a certain user regardless of what they do, it is hard to tell fact from fiction! | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm a little slow here because I'm a product of the public school system and all, but it seems to me replacing data based on contribution notes or the cover without checking is the epitome of bad data sourcing. I seem to remember one of our members having strong opinions about the importance of using good data sources.
Seriously Skip, do you have to double down on everything? Most of us have made a bad submission from time to time. We usually either say oops and move on or at least withdraw the submission and pretend it never happened. It's way better for your credibility tha defending something that was clearly wrong to the death. Look at how Kathy handled the skit list removal for SNL, for instance. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Lets say a DVD cover states a movie had a 129 minute runtime. I put that movie in, and when the movie starts, I start a stopwatch. I watch the movie, and at the end I stop the stopwatch. Wen I look down it says 2hrs 9 min 32 sec. Well obviously the cover is wrong and I make a contribution change to "correct" the runtime and give my verification method (basically nothing more than personal observation). Most people would tell me that is not valid evidence and would get no votes. No, I don't think you would get 'no' votes as this is exactly the same as playing the DVD and reading the counter on your player. That 'personal observation' is accepted all the time. Quote:
How is "personal observation" a valid documentation? When have we eased up on our own standards of what good documentation is? Personal ovservation has always been valid documentation...just submit a profile with uncredited cast and see what you are told. Quote:
We seem to get more and more of that, on things that there are tools and other physical evidence that should be used. You seem to be confusing 'should' with 'required'. Should better tools be used? Sure. Are we required to use them? Not as far as I can tell. Quote:
What documentation do we accept or not accept, and how lax do we become in our standards? That is a question each voter must decide for themselves. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Lets say a DVD cover states a movie had a 129 minute runtime. I put that movie in, and when the movie starts, I start a stopwatch. I watch the movie, and at the end I stop the stopwatch. Wen I look down it says 2hrs 9 min 32 sec. Well obviously the cover is wrong and I make a contribution change to "correct" the runtime and give my verification method (basically nothing more than personal observation). Most people would tell me that is not valid evidence and would get no votes. Martian expressed my feelings as well, but I would add that, for me, I would accept this from a good majority of submitters that I see submitting often. If it were a name I didn't recognize or has had a history of bad data, I would probably pop the disc in and verify myself before voting. I wouldn't necessarily vote no without checking, though. It's very rare that I put a no vote down without verifying myself. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
That is a question each voter must decide for themselves. If this is truly the case, and we know the screeners in part rely on the voters input, then we have lowered ourselves to the loosest guidelines. Rules are required to be followed, for there are consequences if they are not. I do understand that some of our rules have room for debate. If there aren't any consequences, then we do not have rules, we have guidelines. Charlie |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 762 |
| | Posted: | | | | Skip, you simply screwed that one up and now you are trying to get yourself out of the hole that you dug for yourself. You should have checked before contributing instead of using old and also wrong contribution notes. It's that simple my friend. It doesn't even matter how good or bad the notes for the last contribution are. You should have checked before contributing. That's it. If you would have done it you would have seen that the information is correct. |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | I personally don't consider calling them guidelines a "lowering" at all. The rules can't cover all eventualities and variations, and forcing them to do so only adds bad data into the database. I'd be much happier if for certain circumstances with the voters' agreement that the rules be ignored on occasion for the good of the database.
But in this particular case no rule was broken, the 2nd contributor simply didn't think the 1st contributor's notes were sufficient - a matter of opinion - and then proceeded to deliberately submit bad data and lied in the contribution notes to support it. Something he's been caught doing before.
If there are to be consequences for not following the rules - the above actions should have some major consequences. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
That is a question each voter must decide for themselves.
If this is truly the case, and we know the screeners in part rely on the voters input, then we have lowered ourselves to the loosest guidelines.
Rules are required to be followed, for there are consequences if they are not. I do understand that some of our rules have room for debate.
If there aren't any consequences, then we do not have rules, we have guidelines.
Charlie Exactly, Charlie. And that is why I want to hear from Ken. The screeners depend upon us as Contributors and voters and if we do not follow the Rules, as supposedly required then we have nothing. So, Ken Cole what is that we have here, do we have Rules, Guidelines, dartboards or what. To me it appears that a dartboard is actually the closest answer, and once someone has thrown their dat then it becomes correct data not to be changed. I don't like guessing games and will never accept such bs in my own database, you want to provide some valid documentation beyond "it is so because I say it is so", then fine I can accept that and will do so willingly bhut I will not accept this kind of garbage EVER PERIOD. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Grendell:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Tell me Skip, how do you defend this out and out lie in your contribution notes?
Quote:
DvddECRYPTER, dvdsHRIN and POWERDVD all see this as 16X9 anamorphic
Is this the kind of substantiation we should accept in order to vote "yes" to a contribution?
Wow, very crazy and disruptive user. The fact that Invelos does not remove this user must mean that they support this type of treatment to their customers. If they don't do anything about it and don't care, why should anyone want to contribute if they are going to be subjected to this?
What treatment is that, Grendell? Do you mean the fact that I pointed out that Skip placed a bald-faced lie in his contribution Notes in order to change good data to bad data. NONE of those tools say that this film is "16X9 anamorphic"!!!!
Lying in your contribution notes is an excellent reason for revoking contribution privileges.
Of course, when you are blinded by your avid defense of a certain user regardless of what they do, it is hard to tell fact from fiction! Consistently accepting Contributions which are contrary to the Rules as you do, hal should also be reason to revoke both Contribution and voting privileges, along with your slander and personal attacks | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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