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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Ken also said he had to give up some accuracy for ease of use...
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
DVD Profiler must walk a fine line between enough accuracy to keep one side of the aisle happy while maintaining ease of use and entry to keep the other, generally somewhat silent and large majority happy. My development experience is not trivial, and I've been forced to design systems where one person's concept of accuracy has driven the project into the ground, completely unusable to the end users. I don't plan to make that mistake here.
I truly believe this is one of those times. And I just happen to agree with it Hal. So I once again ask to lets just agree to disagree... because I can tell you now this isn't something I see myself changing my mind on. If Ken decides to change his mind on it... so be it. But I will still feel the way it is now is the best option. I don't see how this Rule makes it easier at all. I've already stated why, so there's no point in repeating it. As far as I'm concerned it only results in a less accurate database (and creates linking problems). | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | We just disagree here... no big deal.
I still would rather see your idea put in place for linking... but with the current system I have to agree with Ken's clarification. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
T!M, don't take this the wrong way, but you seem to be turning into the new Skip. Great I ain't the only one who think that  But contrary to him the contributions that Skip had done in the past are reliable BTW I'm glad to have check this tread, I sure ain't the only one who think that the common name system worth nothing or that ??? is a poor mature diva always victim of our accusation against him while he destroy the database daily. | | | | Last edited: by Jimmy S |
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| Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Not getting into "Accurate Names";
The "Common Name" issue is not going to be solved by anything we can do in the forums.
Until we can uniquely identify people of the same name, the common name issue is lost. When we have 10 different John Does in the DB, and only 1 or 2 has a known BY, the common name issue as it is becomes impossible.
Maybe an idea, remove the idea of BY. Instead organize a committee, that names need to be submitted to to get a unique 4 digit identifier. Not a perfect solution, but something that could be done in the confines of the program that we have.
The CLT lookup tool is worthless, until we start putting in the correct original title for the movies. Clint Eastwood is listed in 365 Titles (I know he is getting old, but 365?) These type of entries throw the numbers way off.
Charlie |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 867 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:
Why not Gèrard Lanvin? Your change could also lead to different names in the DB, with Gerard Lanvin, Gérard Lanvin and Gèrard Lanvin all as possible answers.
No, there is only one solution, it is Gérard. 100% of French people who know spelling will say that. Every other solution is a spelling mistake, as would be Broce Willis, Brace Willis, Brice or Brece Willis, or even John Fitzgerald Kennedi. Once again I do not ask for anybody to know what is the correct spelling. I just ask that people who know correct spelling should be allowed to correct a wrong entry. I'm not French, so i didn't know, are you saying a name Gèrard could not exist at all, or perhaps only in France and you expect people to first find out if the person in question is French? And your other comment is a complete different issue, we see BRUCE it's Bruce, there is not logical reason nor a rule which requires, allows or necessitate the incorrect changing of the U to any other letter in the alphabet. If the credits however are BRICE WILLIS he'll be credited as Brice for profiler purposes and i'll gladly use the common name to link him to the correct actor, Paul |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
No, there is only one solution, it is Gérard. 100% of French people who know spelling will say that. Every other solution is a spelling mistake This seems very strange to me, that there can be no variation in how people are allowed to spell or pronounce their names in France. In the U.S., your name is spelled the way it is written on your birth certificate, and pronounced the way your parents say it. So there is no "right" or "wrong" way to spell or pronounce a person's name except as compared to those things (or unless someone has their name legally changed, or decides to start pronouncing their name differently.) So Cheryl and Sheryl may both be correct and be pronounced the same. Cindy and Cyndi and Cindee may all be correct and pronounced the same. Michael and Micheal and Mykill may all be correct and pronounced the same. We don't have strict rules on names here and so it's just not natural for Americans to "know" how everyone's name has to be spelled. --------------- |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't think we really care much about pronunciation.
However, if documentation can be provided that a person, any person, uses accents in their name in the normal course of business, then our conversion from all caps to mixed case should permit it to be properly spelled.
The argument that we must enter what we see on screen, is not valid, because, in fact, we do not enter what we see on screen, since we do not enter the name in all caps as it appears on-screen.
Why there is such resistance to accommodating people from countries who use accents just leaves me baffled. If this is truly a program that is designed for all nationalities, then it should make allowances for as many of those nationalities as is practical. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Why there is such resistance to accommodating people from countries who use accents just leaves me baffled.
Same with me. Yves is sure really patient on this one, certainly more than me... This is so incredibly weird that people who don't write, understand or talk in french believe they know more than people who had lived all their live in a french country. Ken really missed the train when he said a long time ago to ignore the foreign accent. It would have been so more logic and less anglo-centrist to say : "Don't need to add the accent if you aren't familliar with the language, but if you are you are more than welcome to add this valuable information". But everything need to be complicated here or DVDP wouldn't be the joke of the profiler world... At least we aren't forced to use the database and it was a good decision when we see how many errors are present in the database. This is so more important to know the common name of a nobody who had made 3 films with 49 profiles for one of them where he use a different name (this is an exemple). |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
I don't think we really care much about pronunciation. Oh, I think it's an issue, as accents on letters are there to affect pronunciation, and would have no meaning otherwise. Quote:
The argument that we must enter what we see on screen, is not valid, because, in fact, we do not enter what we see on screen I think that the argument is that we should use a simple transform that everyone can understand and follow with a minimum of confusion and diversity. We should not have a rule where multiple people can see the same identical information and enter it multiple different ways in the database. I would be in favor of entering exactly what is on screen (e.g. ALL CAPS) before I'd favor a rule that allows for diverse interpretations of the same data. --------------- |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | What is so hard to understand in the "you don't know leave it alone and let the ones who know do the works" concept? Is it just a case of useless stubbornness? Maybe Ken should remove the "designed for international community" in the description of DVDP since it's untrue because DVDP anglo-centered... Quoting scotthm: Quote:
I would be in favor of entering exactly what is on screen (e.g. ALL CAPS) As if DVDP wasn't a complete joke enough already  |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,733 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
We should not have a rule where multiple people can see the same identical information and enter it multiple different ways in the database.
I would be in favor of entering exactly what is on screen (e.g. ALL CAPS) before I'd favor a rule that allows for diverse interpretations of the same data. My thoughts exactly! | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting No_Name_Needed: Quote:
What is so hard to understand in the "you don't know leave it alone and let the ones who know do the works" concept? Because then I would have to acknowledge how utterly arrogant you are and it may irritate me. --------------- |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
I don't think we really care much about pronunciation.
Oh, I think it's an issue, as accents on letters are there to affect pronunciation, and would have no meaning otherwise. I do not need to know how to pronounce the name to know whether the person uses an accent or not through researching their name. So to me, pronunciation is completely irrelevant. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
I do not need to know how to pronounce the name to know whether the person uses an accent or not through researching their name. So to me, pronunciation is completely irrelevant. And I do not need to research a person's name at all if I enter data 100% based on what appears on the screen credits. --------------- | | | | Last edited: by scotthm |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
I do not need to know how to pronounce the name to know whether the person uses an accent or not through researching their name. So to me, pronunciation is completely irrelevant.
And I do not need to research a person's name at all if I enter data 100% based on what appears on the screen credits.
--------------- That's very true, and you are perfectly free to do just that! I am only suggesting that those who wish to do such research, or know the proper spelling, be permitted to submit it in order to improve the accuracy of the online database. Why would you object to other people doing this? And once again, we are not entering "data 100% based on what appears on the screen credits", so I'd appreciate it if you would stop using that argument. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Because then I would have to acknowledge how utterly arrogant you are and it may irritate me. Do I need to tell you that you got this  for this unwaranted insult to a perfectly polite and justified question  |
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