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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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 imdb not valid? (Locked) |
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| Registered: April 17, 2007 |  Posts: 771 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
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Anyway, with such results, I agree with RHO, "If I were Invelos, I would be concerned about the usefulness of my database for my customers."
I have a co-worker who uses DVDP, and I think of him as a typical user. He never visits the forums, never contributes, downloads his profiles from online, and takes what data is available. Occasionally he will ask me to scan a cover for him. That's it. He doesn't care about any of these discussions, or linking, or "proper spelling", or capitalization rules.
I think those of us here are the oddballs and that he's very typical.
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All of the users I know, outside of the forums, use it in the exact same manner. All they are really interested in is a program that allows them to keep track of the titles they own. It's the same with the people I know, they care about linking if its affecting actors they know, but those are working fine mostly, so they don't have any problems with the database. Personally I'd like a better system, my main problem with IMDB is I don't know where their data comes from, so I rather stick with the credits. | | |  |
| | Registered: May 9, 2007 |  Posts: 1,536 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am reasonably happy with the linking system as it is, although improvements are always possible. For example, for "common names" I'd support correct spelling if that can be verified (after a vote?). But that more or less requires a unique identifier to be assigned, and for a user-created database I wouldn't know how to implement that.
As for IMDB, I noticed that for TV-series (episodes), their data are very often very incomplete. And of course, as for the roles of the actors, they just invent them rather than taking them from the credits. | | | | Hans |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I definitely feel linking needs improvement. But in my eyes IMDB is not the way to go for this. As accuracy to the credits is still very important to me. I feel we need better linking... but at the same time have the cast names and role names match the credits. That is a must! | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Staid S Barr: Quote:
I(...) But that more or less requires a unique identifier to be assigned, and for a user-created database I wouldn't know how to implement that. (...) IMDb is user created. |
| | Registered: February 23, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I definitely feel linking needs improvement. But in my eyes IMDB is not the way to go for this. As accuracy to the credits is still very important to me. I feel we need better linking... but at the same time have the cast names and role names match the credits. That is a must! I agree completely. The current system is far from sufficient when it comes to linking. Sure, the big Hollywood cannons work well but any user interested in linking of smaller actors or actors outside the realm of Hollywood staple (read: asian, european, indian, etc), are left hanging in the cold. At the same time, I think IMDB is not the answer as well. What we need is a system that reconciles exact reporting of credits as they appear on screen, coupled with a system that allows actors to exist with various names, linking them correctly and allowing users a local option to choose which name to display (they common name of their choosing or the name as credited or both). But I fear we're a long, long way from ever seeing that implemented  | | | Blu-ray collection
DVD collection
My Games
My Trophies |
|   | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Taro: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
I definitely feel linking needs improvement. But in my eyes IMDB is not the way to go for this. As accuracy to the credits is still very important to me. I feel we need better linking... but at the same time have the cast names and role names match the credits. That is a must!
I agree completely. The current system is far from sufficient when it comes to linking. Sure, the big Hollywood cannons work well but any user interested in linking of smaller actors or actors outside the realm of Hollywood staple (read: asian, european, indian, etc), are left hanging in the cold.
At the same time, I think IMDB is not the answer as well. What we need is a system that reconciles exact reporting of credits as they appear on screen, coupled with a system that allows actors to exist with various names, linking them correctly and allowing users a local option to choose which name to display (they common name of their choosing or the name as credited or both). But I fear we're a long, long way from ever seeing that implemented Before this could be implemented things like the crediting of TV series and a DVD with multiple films should be correctly counted in the CLT. Moreover there are still many DVDs in the database with incorrect names (directly copied from IMDb) that should be corrected. | | | | Cor |
| | Registered: February 23, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes and no.
I agree that IMDB clones would need to be cleaned up (or redone from scratch) but CLT would become superfluous with a system where one actor has a unique ID and to that attched all his or her name variants. Users can then locally choose which name (or names) to display. | | | Blu-ray collection
DVD collection
My Games
My Trophies |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,733 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
things like the crediting of TV series and a DVD with multiple films should be correctly counted in the CLT. These are indeed two major issues that desperately need to be addressed. |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
This thread had, at the time I wrote this, 268 views yet only 21 people posted.
Don't forget that if time someone check the thread one view is added. You have to consider that some users open it more than one time wich count as one view everytime they open the thread, so one an unique user can add 10 or more views on a thread. |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hallo-marvin: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
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Anyway, with such results, I agree with RHO, "If I were Invelos, I would be concerned about the usefulness of my database for my customers."
I have a co-worker who uses DVDP, and I think of him as a typical user. He never visits the forums, never contributes, downloads his profiles from online, and takes what data is available. Occasionally he will ask me to scan a cover for him. That's it. He doesn't care about any of these discussions, or linking, or "proper spelling", or capitalization rules.
I think those of us here are the oddballs and that he's very typical.
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All of the users I know, outside of the forums, use it in the exact same manner. All they are really interested in is a program that allows them to keep track of the titles they own.
It's the same with the people I know, they care about linking if its affecting actors they know, but those are working fine mostly, so they don't have any problems with the database.
Personally I'd like a better system, my main problem with IMDB is I don't know where their data comes from, so I rather stick with the credits. Pretty much the same as my friends that use it and don't post here (but they do all complain about the pisspoor linking). Sometimes I hear about the cover that not matching because they bought a newer DVD. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting No_Name_Needed: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
This thread had, at the time I wrote this, 268 views yet only 21 people posted.
Don't forget that if time someone check the thread one view is added. You have to consider that some users open it more than one time wich count as one view everytime they open the thread, so one an unique user can add 10 or more views on a thread. I am aware of this, which is why I followed that statement with a question rather than another statement. My point was, the numbers in this thread aren't complete enough to form any real conclusion about what Invelos should be concerned about. It made sense in my head, but that doesn't always mean it makes sense when I type it.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting Staid S Barr:
Quote:
I(...) But that more or less requires a unique identifier to be assigned, and for a user-created database I wouldn't know how to implement that. (...)
IMDb is user created. Indeed, but they started out with a proper linking system. They did not try to piece one together after the fact. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Linking was a huge contributing factor in my decision to stop contributing.
I had always been a major contributor. Everything I did I submitted for others to use.
But, when linking (among other things) were introduced it made contributing a lot harder. Now I usually have to do Two profiles if I intend to contribute one.
Profile 1 - linking as per the CLT results.
Profile 2 - linking as per my local database.
Eg. If I have Wanda De Jesus locallly in 26 titles; but the CLT tells me it should be Wanda DeJesus I go with what I have locally. Mainly this is because I have, at some point, edited every single watched title in my 6000+ collection. Therefore, I'm pretty sure everything matches the credits.
I can honestly say that the Credited As system has made contributing a complete nightmare, even for die-hard contributors, like myself.
I said it then - and I'll say it again now - most people don't give a rat's behind about the Invelos linking; because they use IMDB. Therefore I think the linking should be a local ONLY feature.
I also think that most users don't give a (insert animal bum of your choice here) about this forum and the people in it either. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting Staid S Barr:
Quote:
(...) But that more or less requires a unique identifier to be assigned, and for a user-created database I wouldn't know how to implement that. (...)
IMDb is user created.
Indeed, but they started out with a proper linking system. They did not try to piece one together after the fact. Actually they didn't start with fixed person ids. Their linking system evolved quite a bit from the rec.arts.movies attractive actresses list in 1989 to the fixed person ids of today's database. I do remember 1992 where the linking in the Cardiff Internet Movie Database was far from as robust as today. |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,733 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Eg. If I have Wanda De Jesus locallly in 26 titles; but the CLT tells me it should be Wanda DeJesus CLT numbers: 71 titles for your Wanda De Jesus; only 3 for Wanda DeJesus. So the CLT numbers actually support your own findings, not the other way around...  Quote:
I also think that most users don't give a (insert animal bum of your choice here) about this forum and the people in it either. Very true. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
I also think that most users don't give a (insert animal bum of your choice here) about this forum and the people in it either. I have to agree with you... even if I would have worded it differently  We are maybe between 30 or 40 to really participate on the forum discussion, so it's evident the large majority don't care for the forum and what is said in it. Wich is kind of normal if we think of it, we don't participate at all the forum of the software we own (we need time to have a life). But I don't agree on that the "credited as" decision was a bad move (seriously the 2.x enter as it is on screen was a nightmare), but the "common name" move was a bad one. Everybody can link their stuff themselves if they care enough and if they don't the big name will always be linked anyway. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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