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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Role Capitalization? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Rick: It is logical, you weren't aware of it, I WAS and i dsin=gbnd it remember. The culture is the Credit niot France, not America not anywhere, it is what the credit SAYS, very simple. You said "unless of course you are from a country dealing with this I guess" or you have an agenda, which is my belief. It's simpl;y not that big a deal unless you have an agenda or are nationalistic beyond belief. But all that aside, wake up people, i have suggested a soluution that retains the integrity of the AS CREDITED design and still gives Yves what he wants, so instead of continuing this idiotic word commentary, why not address the solution. Oh, I know why you can't address it, Skip suggested it, i can't support anything that skip suggests. Grow up, I am beginning to believe that no one really wants to fix this, they just want to carp about it, since a solution has been offered and no one has chosen to comment on it and as usual most people are not demonstrating any understanding of what is being said, A solution has been suggested, so let's address it and try and get Ken to Ok, the only other possibility is that you don't want a solution, and this solution was suggested by me several years ago , yet instead of Yves or anyone saying you know a solution has been suggested that is a win win for everyone but no one not even Yves has said that. Instead we have a continuing chorus of whines because we (the Community) do not a win win, we want a win LOSE, we won't endorse anything that is suggested by one particular user because we don;t want participation of weverybody and we want him to leave. Well, you have achieved one objective, which if i were ken would tee me off, I don't Contribute and don't intend to until i see a change in the tone around here. And that isn't going to happen. Am I fed up, you betcha, Kathy just keep on wearing your blinders.   | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
But all that aside, wake up people, i have suggested a soluution that retains the integrity of the AS CREDITED design and still gives Yves what he wants, so instead of continuing this idiotic word commentary, why not address the solution. Oh, I know why you can't address it, Skip suggested it, i can't support anything that skip suggests. Grow up, You have suggested this before and in a some way I could agree. But usually the tenor of the objectors is, that the credited as field does influence the credit lookup tool. And the name fields are already reserved for the common name (which could be with or without accents BTW). | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
I think I see what Surfeur means. If the word FRANCOIS was in the role, title or overview field of a French DVD then François is allowed by the rules. But not in cast name. Not in Overview: Quote:
Copy the overview from the back of the DVD case exactly as written, including capitalization of words exactly as shown on the back of the case. (bolded by me) |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
I think I see what Surfeur means. If the word FRANCOIS was in the role, title or overview field of a French DVD then François is allowed by the rules. But not in cast name.
Not in Overview:
Quote:
Copy the overview from the back of the DVD case exactly as written, including capitalization of words exactly as shown on the back of the case.
(bolded by me) Yes also in overviews (bolded by me): Quote:
Copy the overview from the back of the DVD case exactly as written, including capitalization of words exactly as shown on the back of the case. Separate all paragraphs with a blank line.
Use the Bold and/or Italic features for any words in the overview that are bold and/or italic as needed to match the case. Exceptions: If the entire overview uses an uppercase or lowercase font, enter the overview using standard capitalization rules for the locality of the DVD. Do not bold or italicize individual letters (as in the case of dropped capitals beginning a paragraph).
Do not use bold/italic to denote color changes. We are talking about the conversion of all caps (resp. all lower case). |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Forum Moderator: Removed | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Ooooh there it is the tenor of the user. Rho much has been made about my tenor and that I insult people, I don't like your tenor usually. (...) For the record, I have not talked about my tenor. I usually don't care to much about linking. |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:
Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
I think I see what Surfeur means. If the word FRANCOIS was in the role, title or overview field of a French DVD then François is allowed by the rules. But not in cast name.
Not in Overview:
Quote:
Copy the overview from the back of the DVD case exactly as written, including capitalization of words exactly as shown on the back of the case.
(bolded by me)
Yes also in overviews (bolded by me):
Quote:
Copy the overview from the back of the DVD case exactly as written, including capitalization of words exactly as shown on the back of the case. Separate all paragraphs with a blank line.
Use the Bold and/or Italic features for any words in the overview that are bold and/or italic as needed to match the case. Exceptions: If the entire overview uses an uppercase or lowercase font, enter the overview using standard capitalization rules for the locality of the DVD. Do not bold or italicize individual letters (as in the case of dropped capitals beginning a paragraph).
Do not use bold/italic to denote color changes.
We are talking about the conversion of all caps (resp. all lower case). Ok, agree. If the entire Overview is all-caps, we use standard capitalization. If just a part of the Overview is all-caps, wo don't. Still remains the question which standard capitalization rule we use. There are many different possibilities and until there's no clarification I would accept all.  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Ooooh there it is the tenor of the user. Rho much has been made about my tenor and that I insult people, I don't like your tenor usually. (...)
For the record, I have not talked about my tenor. I usually don't care to much about linking. You're right, my bad. I am at least TRYING to come up with answer that will retain the integrity of the credit and still allow for those with cultural problems to win as well. Is it a perfect solution no, and probably can't be with the current mess for a link system, BUT I think that particular argument is not terribly significant and the issue can be dealt with relatively easily. I would even suggest that while is at least some American films credit Francois Truffaut, I have little doubt that his Most Commonly Credited is really François, I might be wrong but I doubt it. But i think that is a minor point that can easily be dealt with. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
Ok, agree. If the entire Overview is all-caps, we use standard capitalization. If just a part of the Overview is all-caps, wo don't.
Still remains the question which standard capitalization rule we use. There are many different possibilities and until there's no clarification I would accept all. For overviews the rules tell us to use the standard capitalization rules for the locality of the DVD (I assume standard text capitalisation is meant and not title capitalisation). And for titles it is stated to use capitalization rules common to the language of the title for non-English titles (here I assume title capitalisation) and a very specific (but incompletely formulated) capitalisation rule for English titles. For role names I'm still not sure what is standard: title capitalisation or text capitalisation. Even though the language is not defined where we have to take the capitalisation rules from for role names, I have no doubt that this selection is obvious, because the credits (specially the role names of the credits) are usually written in a single very specific language per film. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Rick:
It is logical, you weren't aware of it, I WAS and i dsin=gbnd it remember. Sorry, my skip-o-lator blew up on this line. Other than you saying it is logical I don't know what you are telling me here. I guess we have two different ideas of what logic is. You say you don't like conditionals yet this is one you see as being OK and logical. If the all caps name is in field X use method A. If it is in field Y use method B. Whether you agree or not that is a conditional. It is also illogical (to me at least and others it seems). Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Rick:
The culture is the Credit niot France, not America not anywhere, it is what the credit SAYS, very simple. You said "unless of course you are from a country dealing with this I guess" or you have an agenda, which is my belief. It's simpl;y not that big a deal unless you have an agenda or are nationalistic beyond belief. Personally I can't speak for what other people in other countries see as a big deal when it comes to how their names are spelled. My guess is it could be a big deal though. Accusing them of having an agenda is a bit unfair. You made a remark about how people ignore your "fix" cause are skip have you thought that perhaps you don't see the issue here since it is Yves that continuously brings it up? FWIW your idea would fix one issue while possibly causing trouble with the CLT. I believe the point is there shouldn't have to be a fix. IF Ken wants to go "only use accents in lower case where they are specifically shown in upper case" then it should be for all fields, not just one field. BTW - welcome back. Hope you did something enjoyable during your absence. |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
...For role names I'm still not sure what is standard: title capitalisation or text capitalisation.
Even though the language is not defined where we have to take the capitalisation rules from for role names, I have no doubt that this selection is obvious, because the credits (specially the role names of the credits) are usually written in a single very specific language per film. Yes, but this is something that should be clarified and if this would be it: Use it with Ken's exception or not. (see Surfeur's posts to this) So clarification is needed! Btw, the Ken's exception of all caps with accents at cast/crew member is still not in the rules. This should be done or if he wants something different clarified. I would go to use the same ruling on both: cast/crew members and role names. No matter which option it would be. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
So in credits we have two columns. One is name of actors, the other is roles for those actors. If I understand T!M's position, we would use american capitalisation rules for names (following Ken's clarification) in column one and spanish capitalisation rules in column 2, as for titles... Simple, isn't it ? I am sorry, but that simply isn't true. Ken's clarification had nothing to do with amarican capitalisation rules. All it addressed was converting an uppercase letter into into a lowercase letter. I know you don't like it but, please, don't try to make it into something that it isn't. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lyonsden5: Quote:
(...) IF Ken wants to go "only use accents in lower case where they are specifically shown in upper case" then it should be for all fields, not just one field. (...) That would be worse than what we have today. While "LE PERE DE LA MARIEE" is not according the latest French spelling rules (even though it used to be completely normal in handwriting and typewriter in the old days not so long ago), it is still considered acceptable and used by much to many people including film makers. On the other hand "Le Pere de la mariee" is and has always been completely wrong. The only acceptable way to spell this in mixed case is "Le Père de la mariée". |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
I think I see what Surfeur means. If the word FRANCOIS was in the role, title or overview field of a French DVD then François is allowed by the rules. But not in cast name. Actually, I don't believe that is true. We are talking about standard capitalization, which means which word have the first letter capitalized, what Surfeur is talking about is converting an uppercase character into a lowercase character. I believe Ken's clarification covers all conversions of all uppercase to mixed case...C=c and Ç=ç. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I am sorry, but that simply isn't true. Ken's clarification had nothing to do with amarican capitalisation rules. All it addressed was converting an uppercase letter into into a lowercase letter. We have to admit that the conversion of upper case to lower case characters is part of the capitalisation rules. And in French the capital C has to be converted sometimes into a lower case c and sometimes into a ç. That is a fact. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Grendell: Quote:
The problem is that "Francois" is an imaginary name. "François" is not. I totally see why surfeur51 is annoyed by this. I am annoyed by it. I can see why Surfeur is annoyed with this as well. Way back when, I supported his desire to enter the name properly...as did a few other people. Unfortunately, Ken did not support that desire and made his carification. As I am not El ingenioso hidalgo don Quijote de la Mancha, I let it go. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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