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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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 Brian Van't Hul parsing question... (Locked) |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Unfortunately it seems painfully obvious that adult discussion is not possible here. I believe the OP's original question has been answered to his satisfaction so I'm leaving this thread to anyone who wants to continue to pointlessly bicker. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Let me give you a hint, contractions are NOT articles. Um, what, exactly, are you basing this blanket statement on? From everything I have read it is quite common for articles, called tussenvoegsels in Dutch, to be contractions...aan 't, bij 't, in 't, onder 't, over 't, op 't, van 't, uijt 't and voor in 't. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | I found most of this topic very informative. Thank you TheMadMartian for bringing it to my attention. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | North:
You jumped into this. I am not trying to be disagreeable notr am I the one that came here trying to play a stupid game of Gotcha, and winding up making yourself look like a horse's backside in your eagerness to play your game. I have even asked politely of bbbbb and every other user to PLEASE not do this again, provide documentation. And for that both you and Alien tried to deride my remarks, now i realize that neither of you are well taught in manners, that has been obvious for many months, you boys tend to ignite these flame wars.
Now i hope that bbbbb and other users will take my request to heart and to please include documentation, this includes CLT Results. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Now i hope that bbbbb and other users will take my request to heart and to please include documentation, this includes CLT Results. I am trying to figure out what you mean here. Let me try an example... Say I come across a profile with Cristián De La Fuente. In that profile, he is parsed 'Cristián/De La/Fuente'. I will change it to 'Cristián/ /De La Fuente'. Are you saying that, if I want to do that, I have to document the fact that 'De La' is an article in that name?  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: February 23, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | The way I see it, it was a legitimate question that got a satisfactory answer, which will even prove useful for future contributions. The rest isn't really relevant.
I'll just add that I don't blame the original contributor for not posting documentation, as he probably submitted something he believed to be self-explanatory. This is a cultural thing and as such I also can't blame MadMartian for having doubts and posting a question about it.
It often happens that I vote on contributions that don't contain a form of documentation because it is self-explanatory to US citizens. However, sometimes such things aren't as clear-cut for me as it is for the US contributor and voters. Usually, I just look it up on the Internet then, learn something new, vote and move on.
Now that an explanation has been provided, I hope this general rule can be counted among the other self-explanatory articles and if someone deviates from it, he or she can post proof then to demonstrate it's one of the extremely rare exceptions. | | | Blu-ray collection
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| | Registered: February 23, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Now i hope that bbbbb and other users will take my request to heart and to please include documentation, this includes CLT Results.
I am trying to figure out what you mean here. Let me try an example...
Say I come across a profile with Cristián De La Fuente. In that profile, he is parsed 'Cristián/De La/Fuente'. I will change it to 'Cristián/ /De La Fuente'.
Are you saying that, if I want to do that, I have to document the fact that 'De La' is an article in that name? That would be utterly ridiculous, if I may say so. If a parsing deviates from the general rule, I believe the burden for proof would be lying on the shoulders of the one submitting that deviation, not on the one changing back to the general rule. It would become a real hassle to correct such errors if that were required of all contributors. Hence my point, a general rule for these Dutch articles has been established. Let's all use that knowledge for the benefit of the online and post proof when a rare occasions occurs that deviates. | | | Blu-ray collection
DVD collection
My Games
My Trophies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Now i hope that bbbbb and other users will take my request to heart and to please include documentation, this includes CLT Results.
I am trying to figure out what you mean here. Let me try an example...
Say I come across a profile with Cristián De La Fuente. In that profile, he is parsed 'Cristián/De La/Fuente'. I will change it to 'Cristián/ /De La Fuente'.
Are you saying that, if I want to do that, I have to document the fact that 'De La' is an article in that name? OMG, Martian. Have you not read ANYTHING I have said. De La translation of the, both are articles, DUH! Van't is nto and i have seen no evidence presented by bbbbb that it is, just his vacuuous and unsupported claim. You wonder why I get annoyed Martian, even at you, when i have to repeat things two, three or more times. All of that has been covered damnit.  I think much of it in my first few posts on this topic. Sheeeesh | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ok, I know I shouldn't let myself get dragged back into this, but I'm absolutely stunned by this. Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
OMG, Martian. Have you not read ANYTHING I have said. Did you read ANYTHING that anybody else said? From page ONE: Quote:
Etymologically speaking it's an abbreviation of 'van het' in Dutch, losely translated in English: "from the ...", "of the ..." Now compare that to what you say: Quote:
De La translation of the, both are articles, DUH! So basically de la, which translates to "of the" is allowed, but van't, which translates to "of the" is not. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | North: And once more, I did read that but it's not relevant HERE, had bbbb cross referenced this thread then it would have been relevant. My remarks have to do with HIS notes and his failure to provide documentation. Once more your GOTCHA game fails.  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 20,111 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Unfortunately it seems painfully obvious that adult discussion is not possible here. I believe the OP's original question has been answered to his satisfaction so I'm leaving this thread to anyone who wants to continue to pointlessly bicker. Exactly. I'm surprised this thread has even gone to 5 pages now... | | | | Corey |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
OMG, Martian. Have you not read ANYTHING I have said. De La translation of the, both are articles, DUH! Van't is nto and i have seen no evidence presented by bbbbb that it is, just his vacuuous and unsupported claim. You wonder why I get annoyed Martian, even at you, when i have to repeat things two, three or more times. All of that has been covered damnit. I think much of it in my first few posts on this topic. Sheeeesh Actually, I have read everything you have written and you keep saying the same exact thing, over and over again, yet, when asked, fail to provide any proof to back up your statement. From what I could find, contractions are quite common in Dutch. Van't is a contraction of van het which translates to 'of'. 'De' is an article that translates to 'of', so this is exactly the same...or am I missing something here.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
North:
And once more, I did read that but it's not relevant HERE, had bbbb cross referenced this thread then it would have been relevant. My remarks have to do with HIS notes and his failure to provide documentation. Once more your GOTCHA game fails. I am sorry but you have, quite clearly, stated that 'van't' is not an article. You can roll your eyes and spin all you want, but it won't change the fact that you made a blanket statement...more than once...that van't isn't an article. Do I have to quote all the pertinent posts? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am going to sound like a horses rear here, but I think I like the documentation idea.
I agree, it can be taken overboard, but with all the strange variances of names I have seen, it would be beneficial
van, may or may not be an article, depending if it is Dutch or American, whether it is a real name or a stage name.
Also with Examples of Mac, Mc, and O' are sometimes not used properly, or have changed over the generations where the capitalization is not used. i.e. Macdonald instead of MacDonald.
There are many more examples throughout, so I have to side with documentation.
Charlie |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
OMG, Martian. Have you not read ANYTHING I have said. De La translation of the, both are articles, DUH! Van't is nto and i have seen no evidence presented by bbbbb that it is, just his vacuuous and unsupported claim. You wonder why I get annoyed Martian, even at you, when i have to repeat things two, three or more times. All of that has been covered damnit. I think much of it in my first few posts on this topic. Sheeeesh
Actually, I have read everything you have written and you keep saying the same exact thing, over and over again, yet, when asked, fail to provide any proof to back up your statement. From what I could find, contractions are quite common in Dutch. Van't is a contraction of van het which translates to 'of'. 'De' is an article that translates to 'of', so this is exactly the same...or am I missing something here. Again Martian, I think you are missing the point, it's not this thread, it is very simple the user chose NOT to provide documentation and the Rules do suggest that he should have., I would have andf I do NOT appreciate him not providing it, or anyone else for that matter. It has nothing to do with this thread or anything you and I might have learned, none of that has any relevance, it is simply about the Contributor's failure to document. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
North:
And once more, I did read that but it's not relevant HERE, had bbbb cross referenced this thread then it would have been relevant. My remarks have to do with HIS notes and his failure to provide documentation. Once more your GOTCHA game fails.
I am sorry but you have, quite clearly, stated that 'van't' is not an article. You can roll your eyes and spin all you want, but it won't change the fact that you made a blanket statement...more than once...that van't isn't an article. Do I have to quote all the pertinent posts? Once again you are out in left field, I believe my intitial post referred to Van't in the context of American English, in which Van't is a contraction NOT an article, you saod so as well. But again the user failed to document, he merely made a statement of "fact" or is it "fiction". you can't tell because he did not document anything. I would also go so far as to say that the users notes did not meet the criteria spelled out in the Rules. "Contribution Notes provide an explanation of your changes to other DVD Profiler users and Invelos for voting and deciding whether to accept your contribution, so make your notes useful and descriptive." "Crew: parsing Brian // Van't Hul (Van't is an article like de la, von, ...);" is definitely unsourced and i would say that the note is nether useful nor descriptive because he did not provide ANY source. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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