Quoting Dan W:

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Charlie,

It seems we agree for the most part. You see, I am not against categories. Most film credits have this anyway. I think that a simple category system would be well accepted with those who are for "open credits" and it would be easy to find the credit group you are looking for. It would probably be easier for Ken to create an "abbreviated" credits area in the view for those who don't want to see the full credits.

Getting there is going to be a problem for ken because he has to write code for it and the initial data entry could be lengthy but the work load would be spread over many. Those who don't want to do a full credits audit do not have to because Ken has already solved that issue.

I am also not in favor of full open credits.  Open Credits yes, but I think they should be limited in scope.  I mean, do "we" want to track the "driver for director x" or "assistant for actress y".  While I would agree that there may be some interesting bits of info in there, the credits could very well get unwieldy and messy.

Charlie

Quoting CharlieM:

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Quoting Dan W:

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Charlie,

It seems we agree for the most part. You see, I am not against categories. Most film credits have this anyway. I think that a simple category system would be well accepted with those who are for "open credits" and it would be easy to find the credit group you are looking for. It would probably be easier for Ken to create an "abbreviated" credits area in the view for those who don't want to see the full credits.

Getting there is going to be a problem for ken because he has to write code for it and the initial data entry could be lengthy but the work load would be spread over many. Those who don't want to do a full credits audit do not have to because Ken has already solved that issue.

I am also not in favor of full open credits.  Open Credits yes, but I think they should be limited in scope.  I mean, do "we" want to track the "driver for director x" or "assistant for actress y".  While I would agree that there may be some interesting bits of info in there, the credits could very well get unwieldy and messy.

Charlie

Charlie:

Don't let your personal opinion enter here. You might not be interested in Driver, Accountatnt or whatever (I KNOW I am not), BUT somebody might be. And that is why I say that Open Creds needs to coupled to the ability to select what we accept from an update, more than just as a group (Crew). If somebody really wants to list the full LOTR Crew list, I will call him absolutely nuts and summon Nurse Ratched immediately, but as long as I can be selective about what data I accept from such an update, why should I say him nay.

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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

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Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Quoting CharlieM:

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But don't get me wrong, I do understand "your" side of the argument.

I understand it as well.  My issue, and I have expressed this several times, is the getting there.  It is going to take thousands of man hours to do there so we better be sure the people, who are going to have to spend that time, want to spend it...which is why I created the poll.

I hate to be a bit sarcastic about this, my friend. But you made one comment that i just can't let pass.

Yeah....and. You know before I stopped Contributing I used to comment on ocassion how many hours i had put into this program so that others could benefit. I think the last time I looked and commented, I was approaching 10,000 hours of my own time to do full audits so that you and others could benefit from that work. There was at least one particular user who would put me down when I said something like with basically a who cares how many hours you have spent trying to benefit this program. So, I have to say who cares how many man hours it takes, it will be right when it is completed and won't ever have to be updated again based on a program change or a Rules change, simply WSIWYT. I now have far more 10,000 hours of my time invested, but the Community no longer benefits from that work, for a whole long list of reasons and users, and believe it or not that makes me very sad.

I had a whole different post ready to go, but decided it wasn't worth it.  Instead, I will simply answer your question...I care.  I am willing to bet, dollars to donuts, that Ken cares as well.

I think the server space would be negligible for Open Creds. I haven't done a plain vanilla backup in a long time, I can tell you that my total backup is 13.7 GB right now and the vast majority of that is require by my graphics files. I would frankly be fairly surprised if the data consumes even 500MB. I will hazard a guess, and be very liberal about it, maybe an additional 5%. So much strorage does Profiler require, again I will take a wild guess, the average full Profile with images seems to be a little less than 400KB, by dead reckoning that would be about 2GB of Online storage for the Online Database, plus whatever is required for each users upload.

As to the programming aspect, I am not familiar with the program Ken uses, in the Db world i have worked in, I don't believe this would present a huge challenge at all.

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Quoting mdnitoil:

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I have about zero interest in completely open credits.  ... I'm still running into profiles that are complete scrapes from IMDb and have absolutely no reference to the actual credits.  I'm talking about profiles that aren't current to Profiler 3.0 standards, let alone 3.6.

Quoting Kathy:

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There is enough mistakes and improvement that currently need to be addressed in the database. My opinion is that we work on those first.

Until the current database is fixed and reaches a higher degree of accuracy I feel these other issues are inappropriate.

This is where I'm at as well.

Quoting Dan W:

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Quoting Danae Cassandra:

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Quoting mdnitoil:

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I have about zero interest in completely open credits.  ... I'm still running into profiles that are complete scrapes from IMDb and have absolutely no reference to the actual credits.  I'm talking about profiles that aren't current to Profiler 3.0 standards, let alone 3.6.

Quoting Kathy:

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There is enough mistakes and improvement that currently need to be addressed in the database. My opinion is that we work on those first.

Until the current database is fixed and reaches a higher degree of accuracy I feel these other issues are inappropriate.

This is where I'm at as well.

A shift to "open credits" would take care of a very large chunk of the errors you mention, at least those in the credits section anyway..

I absolutely agree. Along with curing many other ills as well.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Call me pessimistic, but I think a shift to open credits will actually increase, rather than decrease, the number of profiles that are complete scrapes from IMDb and have absolutely no reference to the actual credits.

Part of this problem, martian stems a couple of areas. First that ken is way to loose in enforcing the Rules and allowing things to be goten  away with, do i really need to elaborate. The other I think stems from the screeners not being able to spot suspicious data, heck there are very obvious errors which should be caught by everyone but are either ignored or missed by a lot, I don't know which. But if everything were tightened up a lot of these problems would go away. I am not going to call you pessimistic, I like skeptical better and that is healthy, i have no problem with you being a bit skeptical. This is nothing new to either myself nor Dan, despite what we thought however we could only with the cards we were dealt, and the issues which were encountered were quite predictable. Will somebody actually be crazy enough to enter a Full Crew set...I don't know but with capability to selectively accept data...I don't see it as a concern.

Like i said, my friend, be skeptical, you might point out something that has not been thought of. i doubt it,  but maybe. I have five years thinking about this issue and Dan adds several more. But if Ken will allow us to move to the same system we use for Cast, a lot of work...sure, but it can do nothing but improve the product that we have spent so many hours in trying to make the BEST.

AND with Open Creds as I envision them, you would have that option, Yves. You could have as little, or none, as you wish. You could choose to track only Directors in your local if that is what you want, or you could choose to track everything...if somebody is that crazy.

I don't believe in limiting the data for the Online, that is each us to call locally and I would probably track different data from you, and Marrtian will track different data from me. With open creds the database can finally serve the needs of each user individually, instead of having specific data imposed upon it, while shutting out others

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