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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Hong Kong parsing |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Except as I noted Donnie. You are making an ASSUMPTION based upon culture, in this case I agree it is correct, but is it going to be true in EVERY case...I am never willing to make suc an assumption on ANY name....I am NOT that person, I cannot state categorically what the name is or should be and neither can you. You are not Chow Yun Fat, in this case I thinkl we can reasonably conclude that you are correct based upon BOTH the cultural "Rule" and the fact that he has been credited before as Chow Yun-Fat, which clearly indicates //Yun Fat as a last name.
I don't believe in making assumptions, Donnie and never have. It simply a way to account for the data in an easy form by EVERY user in EVERY case ( without REQUIRING that the user have some special knowledge), pending data to support something else, which in the casec of Chow Yun Fat we have.
I am NOT misunderstanding you at all, Donnie. I think you are misunderstanding me.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am glad you brought this up. Middle names do not exist in Chinese culture. But neither do Westernized names. Let's get away from Mr. Chow Yun Fat and get back to Tony Leung Chiu-wai.
When Mr. Leung//Chiu-wai took on the name Tony, his name can no longer be parsed using traditional Chinese convention. His name took on modern HK convention of tacking on Western name in front of their Chinese name. So, the problem remains on how to parse his name, Tony Leung Chiu-wai. I am, for one, against the idea of throwing his entire Chinese name into the last name field as some are proposing
(ie. Tony//Leung Chiu-wai).
I am also against throwing his surname/family name into the middle name field as A B C into A/B/C as some people want, specially since with the current system, you cannot search for middle name. | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | <Slaps Self>
Aieeeeeeeee! What do you NOT understand, my friend, this is about credits n and how they appear On Screen not some search for CORRECT names, even Ken has said so. Yet you persist in wanting to go off on a quest for CORRECT names. The CLT ignores parsing for its function, and the Online possesses no other search capability, so the search for CORRECT names becomes purely a local matter and you are free to do as you wish in that arena.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
I am glad you brought this up. Middle names do not exist in Chinese culture. But neither do Westernized names. Let's get away from Mr. Chow Yun Fat and get back to Tony Leung Chiu-wai. Indeed. Though I have brought it up twice, this point as been completely ignored. The actors in question have taken a western first name. How do we know that they haven't completely westernized their name? We know that Chinese Americans do it so why isn't it possible that these people did it as well? To make a blanket statement about culture, concerning people who have already stepped outside of that cultural norm, doesn't make any sense to me. Quote:
When Mr. Leung//Chiu-wai took on the name Tony, his name can no longer be parsed using traditional Chinese convention. His name took on modern HK convention of tacking on Western name in front of their Chinese name. So, the problem remains on how to parse his name, Tony Leung Chiu-wai. I am, for one, against the idea of throwing his entire Chinese name into the last name field as some are proposing (ie. Tony//Leung Chiu-wai). Agreed. If Leung Chiu-wai is properly parsed as 'Leung/ /Chiu-wai' then Tony Leung Chiu-wai should be parsed 'Tony Leung/ /Chiu-wai'. If we can't move 'Leung' to the middle name field, because "Middle names do not exist in Chinese culture," how can you justify moving it to the last name field? Does that exist in Chinese culture? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
I am glad you brought this up. Middle names do not exist in Chinese culture. But neither do Westernized names. Let's get away from Mr. Chow Yun Fat and get back to Tony Leung Chiu-wai.
When Mr. Leung//Chiu-wai took on the name Tony, his name can no longer be parsed using traditional Chinese convention. His name took on modern HK convention of tacking on Western name in front of their Chinese name. So, the problem remains on how to parse his name, Tony Leung Chiu-wai. I am, for one, against the idea of throwing his entire Chinese name into the last name field as some are proposing
(ie. Tony//Leung Chiu-wai).
I am also against throwing his surname/family name into the middle name field as A B C into A/B/C as some people want, specially since with the current system, you cannot search for middle name. As I read this I wondered if "Tony" might be considered a nickname. If so, then it would go into the middle name field. The rest of his name would follow the parsing outlined by Donnie and others. Edit: The reason I thought this was because if he did not legally change his name, then it is a nickname. | | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
I am glad you brought this up. Middle names do not exist in Chinese culture. But neither do Westernized names. Let's get away from Mr. Chow Yun Fat and get back to Tony Leung Chiu-wai.
When Mr. Leung//Chiu-wai took on the name Tony, his name can no longer be parsed using traditional Chinese convention. His name took on modern HK convention of tacking on Western name in front of their Chinese name. So, the problem remains on how to parse his name, Tony Leung Chiu-wai. I am, for one, against the idea of throwing his entire Chinese name into the last name field as some are proposing
(ie. Tony//Leung Chiu-wai).
I am also against throwing his surname/family name into the middle name field as A B C into A/B/C as some people want, specially since with the current system, you cannot search for middle name.
As I read this I wondered if "Tony" might be considered a nickname. If so, then it would go into the middle name field. The rest of his name would follow the parsing outlined by Donnie and others. <Slaps self> Don't say a word. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | LOL, at least its funny right now in this thread and not insulting  My point is , as long as a person does not change nationality, as long as Tony Leung or Chow Yun Fat or whoever, stays Chinese, he has to be treated within the cultural rules that country has. I am also glad that you agree with me on Chow Yun Fat Skip xradman, I see your point here, it is not easy to decide what to do with the added "Tony" name. But if I read your post the correct way, you are against it to put Leung Ka-Fai into the last name field, but also against putting something into the middle name field. But we need some consistency I am open to a good suggestion, to be only against all options does not bring us closer to a solution And so far the vast majority of contributors to asian profiles followed the way synner-man started, this is also the way that I find by far the best one. Martian, as Tony Leung is still a chinese citizen, I treat him as a chinese and not as an american, who has adopted a middle name. I agree, it is not proven to either put it Tony Leung // Ka-fai or Tony // Leung Ka-FaiThe Tony // Leung Ka-fai way is just what the active contributors of asian profiles seem to have agreed upon, to have consistency. This can still bne debated, but I am pretty sure no one will find any proof what is the 100% correct way. Kathy, it can be that he just added "Tony" as a nickname or stagename, no one knows From my experience, especially from the 80s, where HK Action became more popular worldwide, some of the wider known actors and actresses used american sounding names to be better recognizable in the western world. Some examples are: Cynthia Khan, Moon Lee, Sharon Yeoung, Cynthia Luster. But all those people stayed asian citizens, they did not become americans, english or germans cheers Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 5,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
What I know about any countries culture is not relevant, Donnie. I come from a simple position because it is EASIEST for ALL users to execute EVERY TIME without fail. IF I see Chow Yun Fat or any other such name I use a basic three name parsing. If I see Chow Yun-Fat then that is two name parsing and adds data to support the use of Chow //Yun Fat. So Tony / Leung Ka / Fai has been parsed correctly, and Tony // Leung Chiu Wai in the same profile should be changed to Tony / Leung Chiu / Wai ? | | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bbbbb: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
What I know about any countries culture is not relevant, Donnie. I come from a simple position because it is EASIEST for ALL users to execute EVERY TIME without fail. IF I see Chow Yun Fat or any other such name I use a basic three name parsing. If I see Chow Yun-Fat then that is two name parsing and adds data to support the use of Chow //Yun Fat.
So Tony / Leung Ka / Fai has been parsed correctly, and Tony // Leung Chiu Wai in the same profile should be changed to Tony / Leung Chiu / Wai ? I hope you are joking here, since Ka-fai and Chiu-wai should never be split up. It's sort of like taking the name David and spliting it up Da Vid. | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bbbbb: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
What I know about any countries culture is not relevant, Donnie. I come from a simple position because it is EASIEST for ALL users to execute EVERY TIME without fail. IF I see Chow Yun Fat or any other such name I use a basic three name parsing. If I see Chow Yun-Fat then that is two name parsing and adds data to support the use of Chow //Yun Fat.
So Tony / Leung Ka / Fai has been parsed correctly, and Tony // Leung Chiu Wai in the same profile should be changed to Tony / Leung Chiu / Wai ? If you are asking ME, bbbbb. I would make tghis comment, I would not do so based on someone's claim to culture or based on their opinion, if they can provide some documentation to back up their claim, else i would leave it Tony / Leung Ka / Fai or Tony / Leung Chiu / Wai. Donnie nor xradman can lay claim to being Tony, so cannot speak to this first hand, nor can i; the system was designed to be easy to execute based on the data by every user in every case at least as a starting point and once we can obtain some data or information which changes the picture then we can deal with it. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Quoting bbbbb:
Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
What I know about any countries culture is not relevant, Donnie. I come from a simple position because it is EASIEST for ALL users to execute EVERY TIME without fail. IF I see Chow Yun Fat or any other such name I use a basic three name parsing. If I see Chow Yun-Fat then that is two name parsing and adds data to support the use of Chow //Yun Fat.
So Tony / Leung Ka / Fai has been parsed correctly, and Tony // Leung Chiu Wai in the same profile should be changed to Tony / Leung Chiu / Wai ?
I hope you are joking here, since Ka-fai and Chiu-wai should never be split up. It's sort of like taking the name David and spliting it up Da Vid. xradman: In today's world....i have certainly seen stranger names, like Will.I. Am Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bbbbb: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
What I know about any countries culture is not relevant, Donnie. I come from a simple position because it is EASIEST for ALL users to execute EVERY TIME without fail. IF I see Chow Yun Fat or any other such name I use a basic three name parsing. If I see Chow Yun-Fat then that is two name parsing and adds data to support the use of Chow //Yun Fat.
So Tony / Leung Ka / Fai has been parsed correctly, and Tony // Leung Chiu Wai in the same profile should be changed to Tony / Leung Chiu / Wai ? funny guy, wanting to cause some more trouble here , eh ? Forum Moderator: RemovedMaybe you have a different sense of humor than I do, but your post only puts fuel in the fire. Forum Moderator: RemovedDonnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | You know, in all fairness, this debate is no different than arguments about "Double-Barreled" last name (i.e. Bonhomme Carter)
If it was a name, that I was not familiar with, I would enter it as H/B/C. Someone came along and showed that was incorrect it should be H//BC. We did not change the order, just the parsing.
Couldn't the same be said for Chow Yun Fat. Not knowing any better, I would enter C/Y/F. Well obviously somebody did know better, and corrected it to C//YF. Where is the difference in the argument.
We are not changing the order of the names.
If I do not know any better, I will continue to enter 1/2/3. If somebody knows different, then fine. It can be changed to 12//3, or 1//23 or //123 or what ever. I don't see any incongruency with this policy.
Charlie |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DarklyNoon: Quote:
Forum Moderator: Removed quote Now, see, this is what I am talking about. Why go straight for the negative? The way I read it, bbbbb was asking Skip to clarify is opinion. As you can see by the reply, that seems to be exactly what Skip is saying. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 5,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Quote:
So Tony / Leung Ka / Fai has been parsed correctly, and Tony // Leung Chiu Wai in the same profile should be changed to Tony / Leung Chiu / Wai ?
I hope you are joking here, since Ka-fai and Chiu-wai should never be split up. A joke was not intended: 1. The names are already split up into " Ka Fai" and " Chiu Wai" in the credits. 2. To list names exactly as credited is one of our prime directives. 3. Tony / Leung Ka / Fai has been contributed by a fellow user, probably been accepted by the voters, and finally been checked and approved by a reviewer. Quote:
It's sort of like taking the name David and spliting it up Da Vid. If I'd read "Da Vid" in the credits I'd enter it as "Da // Vid", and wouldn't merge it into "David //". This wasn't a joke, either. | | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | Forum Moderator: Removed | | | | www.tvmaze.com | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
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