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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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"additional music" |
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Author |
Message |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Martin:
What don't you understand? You have a very long track record oif doing whatever you damn well please and then rationalizing it to death. I am not the only person that has told you we don't do ADDITIONAL anything, not Additional Sound Editors, Addiitional Music, Additional Anything, the poll backs it up as well. You got caught and you don't like it...too bad. If you consider the data important keep it local and hope that someday it will be contribuutable, which I would guess that in some way it will be, but right now it is NOT.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Your comment above is also trying to compare apples and oranges, all to try and muddy the water. They are two totally different issues.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,738 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet: Quote: Quoting T!M:
Quote: Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet:
Quote: If you can provide an explanation that the credited writers wrote additional music especially for a movie, they should be included as composers in our database. That's what the "additional music by" credit means: providing further explanation isn't necessary - it is what it is. If you see such a credit in conjunction with a "music" or "composer" credit, then that in itself tells us that someone DID contribute some additional music to the movie, but was NOT the main composer of the score. And Skip is right: we can't use "composer" because we wouldn't have a way to distinguish between the two. If you did, it would look like the film's score was composed by both of them, and that really isn't a accurate reflection of that large "composer" credit in the opening credits for just one of them... It's not that the contributor of "additional music" didn't COMPOSE anything - he did, obviously - but he just cannot be mixed in with the actual composer(s) of the movie's score. I've been thinking about your reply, and I can't quite follow you there. First you were advocating to enter "Mystery Movie Theme by" as Song Writer on which you disagreed with Skip, and now you suddenly disapprove of "Additional Music by" to be entered as Composer on which you agree with Skip. Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense to me. It's all perfectly clear to me, and I still stand firmly behind both points of view. The matter at hand is that we don't enter ANY "additional" crew credits, whether it's music or anything else. The other issue you refer to is that I feel "theme" writers qualify as "song writers" for DVD Profiler purposes. That's something else entirely - something in which I feel I am 100% backed up by the rules, I might add, but let's not go into that here. There is one key similarity, though: in that debate, I also felt we could NOT give them a "composer" credit, for the same reason we can't use "composer" for the additional music in this thread: because we wouldn't be able to distinguish between the two, and it would look like both composed the score together. In both cases, that would not be an accurate representation of that single "composer" credit in the opening credits. So in both cases, I've always argued that we can not use "composer". Now if you had elected to use "song writer" in this discussion, I'd understand why you'd draw a parallel, but since you used "composer", I don't get it. Again, both those responsible for "themes" and for "additional music" DID make a contribution to the movie - I'm not arguing that. But there are many people who do that, yet never get a credit in DVD Profiler. A generic "additional music" credit doesn't tell us how large a contribution this person made, but we do know it was not significant enough to credit him alongside the actual composer. Therefore, using the "composer" credit is simply not possible. That not only goes for "additional music", but for "themes" as well (where we do have a pretty good indication of the "size" of the contribution). Both are not credited as the composer of the score, while someone else is. The only difference is that for specific "themes", I use "song writer" (again, because I'm convinced that the rules tell me to), while I don't credit generic "additional music" at all. That's another debate, but the point is that "composer" isn't allowed for either of them. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,738 |
| Posted: | | | | @ Martin: For the record, I really do think I see where you're coming from... You're thinking: well, the guy is credited for "additional music", so he actually composed some original music for the film, and that makes him a "composer". The key, however, is in the word "additional": he's not the main composer, and since we'd have no way of distinguishing between them in DVD Profiler, we only track the main one. As others have said: we also don't track "additional editors", or "additional directors of photography".
I'm fairly sure I have a few movies where the end credits carry an "additional segments directed by" credit. Would you enter someone like that as a director? I don't think so: it's the main "directed by" credit in the opening credits that we're after. So if you can see that, why the different view on an "additional music by" credit, which is the exact same thing? | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: May 25, 2007 | Posts: 176 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: There is one key similarity, though: in that debate, I also felt we could NOT give them a "composer" credit, for the same reason we can't use "composer" for the additional music in this thread: because we wouldn't be able to distinguish between the two, and it would look like both composed the score together. In both cases, that would not be an accurate representation of that single "composer" credit in the opening credits. What if the theme was purely instrumental? Surely a "song writer" credit would be wrong when no song has been written. |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,738 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting wintermute115: Quote: Quoting T!M:
Quote: There is one key similarity, though: in that debate, I also felt we could NOT give them a "composer" credit, for the same reason we can't use "composer" for the additional music in this thread: because we wouldn't be able to distinguish between the two, and it would look like both composed the score together. In both cases, that would not be an accurate representation of that single "composer" credit in the opening credits.
What if the theme was purely instrumental? Surely a "song writer" credit would be wrong when no song has been written. Shall we do this somewhere else? Have a look at the thread Martin linked to. If you're really interested, read all seven pages of that thread, including the one where I show what the rules have to say on the subject, and don't be thrown off by what you *think* is the definition of a "song", while there's no such definition in the rules, and we're just talking about what for qualifies for a "song writer" credit for DVD Profiler purposes. So read that, and if you really feel that can of worms needs to be opened up again (I know I don't), you're welcome to reply there. But please let's not derail this thread with that, and keep it reserved for what it's actually about: that we're not to enter any "additional" crew credits. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Winter: That is what I have always sqid about most themes. Mission: Impossible is NOT a song. But Tim disagrees.<shrugs> I think we need a Theme by Credit which we don't have right now. But that's another story for another thread, which will come along again someday, I have no doubt. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | On that I agree, Tim. No sense muddying the water with side issues that are not germaine to the discussion at hand. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Since Martin, brought up the Mystery Movie Theme. Correct me if i am wrong, the mancini credit is there but i have yet to heard that theme on any of the associated discs. I have heard...ummm Columbo and so forth but I haven't heard the Mystery Movie Theme in years.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Though I do have it on my computer.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,394 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote: Winter:
That is what I have always sqid about most themes. Mission: Impossible is NOT a song. But Tim disagrees.<shrugs>
I think we need a Theme by Credit which we don't have right now. But that's another story for another thread, which will come along again someday, I have no doubt.
Skip I agree with the need for a "Theme by" credit. Often the theme is the most recognizable music in a program, either film or TV. So if Ken adds "Theme by" to the music credit section, why not "Additional Music," too? | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole) Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges. DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Ken: THAT would be up to Ken. I am only talking about right now. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,394 |
| Posted: | | | | I know, Skip. And I also agree, if reluctantly.<sigh> | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole) Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges. DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,738 |
| Posted: | | | | FYI: the screeners have approved the contributions that were the subject of this thread (me trying to remove "additional music" credits that were listed as "composer"), despite ambigious voting results. I'm not posting this to gloat, but just to share the screeners' decision - I specifically referred to this thread in my contribution notes. So I guess that settles it: both the poll results and the screeners seem to agree that we don't enter "additional" crew credits. I'd still like a line like that in the rules to make sure we won't be having the same debate all over again in a few weeks, but hey, you can't get eveything you wish for... |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 3,830 |
| Posted: | | | | we could always try harder for the wishes to come thrugh.. | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 844 |
| Posted: | | | | At least we can agree that it shouldn't be a Song Writer credit. Now that is what I call consensus. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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