Quoting Alien Redrum:

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Quoting GSyren:

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I think some of you confuse good support with value for money. Profiler is dirt cheap for what we get, so I think most of you would agree that it gives very good value for the price paid.

Does that value include good support? Well, I can't say anything about how support tickets are handled, because I never had a problem that required one. But I can agree with the OP about one thing. The ongoing presence in these forums does not seem to live up to what was promised.

Does that equal "terrible support"? Not in my opinion.

Speaking for myself (and I think, safely, Sam), nobody has ever said Profiler isn't a great program.

Indeed. Phenomenal program well worth (more than) what I paid for it. My problem is with exactly what you say afterwards.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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In fact, if we are being honest here, we were the ones who were attacked for daring to have a different opinion. 

Not by me though. I value your opinions as long standing members but IMO, you have just come to live with the fact that nothing gets done and I personally can't do that. Apologies if this is not your opinion...

In fact, if I'm honest, I don't even want to contribute these days (still contributing a few a day which is nothing by some members standards) but only do to repay those who are helping my 'database' accuracy (I've done it locally, an extra click isn't going to kill me). I've all but given up on cast/crew though from a personal standpoint.

Quoting scotthm:

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Quoting samuelrichardscott:

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It's a matter of respect and gratitude, of which Ken has zero.

I don't see how you can possibly really think that.  You have paid a small fee once for a program for which you will receive indefinite support (bug fixes) and program enhancements.  I'm sure this is not an insignificant matter to the developer.

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The program is nothing without users contributing to the database. A little respect in that regard by helping us understand the rules better to build Ken's main database will help the product infinitely. I want to continue to give back to Ken to help him sell his product to more people, but find this hard when the rules are never as straightforward as they could be, or I get a no vote for following guidelines because of a 3 years old forum post. I'm not asking for the world, I'm asking for 5 minutes a day. If he reads the threads, a quick post to help us make his product better doesn't take much time.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Quoting samuelrichardscott:

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Grendell> Brilliant post.

Yes, it was a nice post but, it doesn't really apply here.  Neither scott, Pete, Whispering or myself attacked you.  In fact, if we are being honest here, we were the ones who were attacked for daring to have a different opinion. 

I think you are taking the analogy entirely too literally. You can substitute the monkey being attacked by the other monkeys with them forming a monkey fence in front of the stairs and the analogy still stands.

If you feel I attacked you, I apologize, that wasn't the intention, but there is this sense of complacency by long time users that is saddening to me since there are promises made that come with the purchase that aren't be lived up to. Just because it's always been that way doesn't make it right.

The argument here isn't about the value of the product, but rather a statement made. Not one person here (that I can tell) has said the program itself isn't worth the money. I think we are all in agreement on that.

The argument is that Ken has made a statement that he isn't abiding by, and from what I gather, everyone that I can see in this thread agrees with that.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Do I wish Ken would step in more often?  Sure, but, because I have gotten more than my money's worth out of this product, it doesn't really bother me.  Don't get me wrong, I do understand the frustration, that's just how I look at it.

Quoting whispering:

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I can understand people wanting more, and answers and what not.

Quoting Kathy:

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I understand the frustration that led to this post.

Quoting Addicted2DVD:

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Other then that... sure I would love to see Ken and Gerri be more active on the forum.

Quoting Gsyren:

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The ongoing presence in these forums does not seem to live up to what was promised.

Quoting CharlieM:

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As far as Ken's participation.  I wish that he would have more presence, and lay down his guidance more often, to make participation in the optional online DB easier.

So, let's throw the value for the money bit aside. For a local database, it's a good value for the money. But the promised participation in the forums (which comes as after sales support, IMO, especially since it's noted to come here on the support page) absolutely sucks. Plain and simple. Unless it's a new version, you get virtually no guidance from Ken or Gerri, even though they say they will give it to you.

It's okay to defend the program, I have no beef with that at all. Just as it is fine by me to have a separate opinion. But, at the core, everyone here agrees on the main issue Sam has. The lack of participation from Ken and Gerri. I know it's a broken record, but it wouldn't be that much of an issue if they didn't promise it.

Also of course, what about the lack of support in the technical help forum from Invelos?

Or lack of input on anything in the suggestions part? Even if just to say "not possible" etc etc. Anything wouldd suffice.

Quoting Alien Redrum:

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The fact that people have to look at not just the rules, but this thread as well as countless others for changed/added rules is retarded, especially considering how ignorant some of the voting comments can get. Nobody should have to go to various sources for rules.

Actually, my pet peeve would be that the screeners seem to often give votes a higher priority than the rules.  This also tells me that Invelos takes the rules less seriously than most "contributors" that frequent these forums.  Does that imply bad support, or just that we take things too seriously here?

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Quoting Alien Redrum:

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Nobody should have to go to various sources for rules.

Actually, they don't.

There is only one set of Rules; they are published; as long as you follow that, you are in compliance and anyone that votes "no" based on anything else is violating what the Rules specifically state:

Quoting the Rules:

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If a user is following the Contribution Rules and his/her data is accurate, and the contribution replaces data which is inaccurate or violates these Contribution Rules, a "No" vote is considered an abuse of the voting privilege and should be avoided when possible.

The only problem that I have with the "You only paid $20, and you get you pay for" type of option is that there is no other option, so to me the point is mostly moot. "Price versus product" (whether speaking of the software or anything connected to it) is difficult to argue just on its face unless you have adequate competition of which I fell DVD Profiler has none in view of the overall picture. If Profiler cost $100 but there were no other programs remotely like it, is it still worth the money for the great program? If Profiler cost $20 but an almost exact similar program in all respects down to the data in the database existed with the exception of having resolved some of the recurring frustrations on this forum (eg: better cast linking) but cost $30 it might not be so easy to pick which program a person should buy, and then there would be a greater need for Profiler to step up the game in the ways that users for years have been discussing.


Ken chooses to sell the program for $20; the original argument was about what is declared verses what is actually received in terms of staff support. He doesn't say, "Hopefully we might get around to answering your questions once in a while." You get what you pay for, but for many, tech support is part of the package.


This forum is rather unique. On every forum you have people asking questions and other members who are perfectly willing to help, but there are so many things that the members simply can't answer or agree on and in the case of rules being open for interpretation, the only way to resolve is come to a compromise (which is nearly impossible when setting a standard based on something that doesn't have middle ground because, regardless of each side, the middle ground could be the least correct), take a poll and go with the winner no matter how many people disagree, or ask someone higher up to break the stalemate. If members can't resolve and issue, someone needs to.


I know I've said this before, but the best support this forum could have is an ever-present separate set of arbitrators (people different from Ken, Gerri, Forum Moderator, and Screeners). They would be more impartial in that they never give their own opinion during the discussion (to keep from swaying things), but when it seems a discussion or problem persists, they can either weigh the evidence and give a final say which could in the long run help with keeping things consistent, and/or be a go-between for Ken/Gerri and the members. Instead of Ken and Gerri having to read every post in every topic, that's what the arbitrators do. Then they relay -- in a greatly reduced/summarized fashion -- what is being discussed. This would make it easier for Ken to make a quick decision on what should be done, and then the arbitrator would reply that decision back to the members. Once that is done, the discussion is over.

(Also, I think what often happens here that keeps things going too far is that two or three people in a conversation all feel at the same time like they are being attacked by each other... each feels he is "discussing" while the other two are "arguing" with him. It's hard to have a good discussion with everyone in the defensive resulting in no one being willing to turn the other cheek or give in on their view of the actual discussion)




(On a side note... Grendell: I have to remember that as it fits the reasoning I have used in many places including here; SpikyCactus: great post all around.  Several other members on both sides of the discussion have made other valid points, but I found these two to be the most powerful so far.)