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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Trouble in Paradise |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Wow, amazed that this got through. I saw this being submitted and didn't even bother voting on it because it was so obviously wrong. Even more amazed at some of the folks arguing that it's the right call. Food for thought folks...do bonus cartoons now count as features to be profiled? They were originally shown theatrically. No? How about the short features that Warner used to be fond of adding...say Joe Dokes, for example? What, not these either? Someone is going to have to explain to me how it is okay to profile a bonus feature except when it isn't okay to profile a bonus feature.  | | | | Last edited: by mdnitoil |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
It's a double feature inProfiler, even though the Distributor calls it a bonus.
Do we usually take all our info from the dvd cover? At least this is what I think we do with the title. Even when those are imaginary title created by the DVD distributors... Why a difference there? The decision came from the dvd distributor and as you say often this is DVD Profiler and not Movie Profiler. BTW Scott the reason of my first post isn't the fact to bring the Second Features/Bonus Film situation to the forum, but the way you did it by using a contribution when we were advice by Ken to not do that. To be honest I agree that the profile accepted isn't correct since the second one is a bonus features (as written on the back cover) and not a second movie. |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mdnitoil: Quote:
Wow, amazed that this got through. I was too, and so I continue to wonder what the value of the voting process is. Most of the time I don't bother anymore either. --------------- | | | | Last edited: by scotthm |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
It is a Bonus to the distributor, it is not a Bonus by Profiler standards You'd better be sure to have all the Media Companies contact you in the future before they label any new products or they're liable to keep making mistakes like that. --------------- |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the Profiler standards are that make us know that bonus features are really are not bonus features. I keep checking the rules but I can't find it.  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Based on the DVD Cover, I would profile this as a bonus feature, not a bonus film, and therefore, would not add cast and crew using dividers.
The problem is that DVDP Rules do not provide a clear distinction between a bonus film, a featurette, a short film, a documentary film, etc. Some subjectivity will always creep into that determination.
If, however, it were a bonus film on the same side as the main feature, I would profile cast and crew using dividers, since a child profile cannot be created due to program limitations. This would be no different than any other disc that had two films on the same side of a disc. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Well, I don't want to be the instigator of contentous debate. I just wanted to address this point...unless your original post was contentious, which I don't believe it was, you are not the instigator. It is the people who can't have a civil discussion who are the instigators. If you have a question or concern, about a contribution, this is the proper forum. Please, don't let anybody make you feel otherwise. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | As this is a feature film included as part of the bonus material for a single release it, without question, is a Bonus Feature Film. How do I know it is a single release? Because the entire case is designed around the one single film...Trouble in Paradise. How do I know the second film is part of the bonus material? Because the only place it is mentioned, is on the back of the case, in the section marked 'Special Features'.
Since this is a 'Bonus Feature Film', the Box Set rules do not apply. How do I know they don't apply? Because the rules tell me it is not the same as a Double Feature or Anthology Collection which require the "Box Set" contribution rules.
Since I can't use the 'Box Set' rules, I have to follow the 'Bonus Feature Film' rules and they tell me to "create the profile for the main feature in line with the standard Contribution Rules with the title of the Bonus Feature Film added to the Other Features field." The rules also tell me to, "create a child profile for the "Bonus Feature Film"..." Unfortunately, in this case, both features are on the same side of a single disc so that can't be done.
This is where the problem lies. Some believe we should bend the rules, as we did with Box Sets, because of the programs limitations. Others believe, because we don't do it for other bonus features, that we should not. Speaking for myself, I probably would not add the cast/crew for the bonus film, but I can certainly see why it was done. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,878 |
| | Posted: | | | | I saw this contribution come through as well - I voted neutral because the title is on my wishlist. I didn't know if there was a second disc or not.
However, after reading through this thread I'm still not sure what the correct answer is. I would agree that it is a bonus film, not a double feature. If it was not on the same side of the disc there would be no question. However, it is on a single-sided disc with the main feature.
So, what about other features that are like this?
Year Without a Santa Claus (UPC 012569053724) also lists cast/crew for "Nestor the Long-Eared Christmas Donkey" and "Rudolph's Shiny New Year" despite not being billed on the front cover as a triple feature.
I think what needs to happen is what Hal alluded to in his post - we need a clearer distinction between the various animals we run into (double/triple feature, bonus film, short film, etc.), and what we should do with each of these when encountered, whether on separate discs or (especially) on a single-sided disc.
I believe that since we do allow profiles of bonus films as child profiles when they are on separate discs, we shall have to allow cast/crew profiles for them with episode dividers for those on single-sided discs. The rules do address double/triple features on single-sided discs in this fashion. But I am unsure if this rule is to be applied to bonus films on a single-sided disc - but I am also equally unsure if this rule is not to be applied. So if I see more of these contributions, I think I'll continue to vote neutral. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
This is where the problem lies. Some believe we should bend the rules, as we did with Box Sets, because of the programs limitations. Others believe, because we don't do it for other bonus features, that we should not. I think the only good way to satisfy everyone is for a program change that would allow us to properly profile every film, featurette, cartoon, documentary, etc. as a seperate entity and attach it to the parent profile. I would like to see that happen but I'm not holding my breath. --------------- |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's sure something I would like to see  I've many SWV Special Edition with two or three movies on one side and because they aren't profiled individually the cast/crew stats aren't correct and the watched stats are wrong when you watch only one of them. Of course I know I can create the profile manually (as I do with the Mills Creek and BCi sets), but it's a lot of works to do... |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | I would contribute the title of the bonus film as an other feature. I would not contribute the cast and crew for the bonus film. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
I would contribute the title of the bonus film as an other feature. I would not contribute the cast and crew for the bonus film. In case I wasn't clear, in my long winded post that didn't really add anything new to the discussion, this is what I would do...and have done...myself. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,733 |
| | Posted: | | | | Back to the original question: Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Either:
1) I cannot understand what I read in the rules
2) The screeners don't know what the the rules say or
3) The screeners don't care about the rules and go with the majority vote I think it's largely #2. I think the rules have become so complicated that neither most of the voters nor the screeners know what they really say, except of course from a few basic principles. And let's not even begin to think about the vast numbers of users all over the world whose grasp of the English language is fairly limited - many of them will have given up on ploughing through all of the rules by page two... Instead, most users seem to contribute along what they feel the rules should say, or what they vagely remember them to say when they glanced at them a few years ago. Frankly, the amount of contributions that I encounter that claim to have done this or that "per the rules", after which I have to point out that those changes really aren't "per the rules" at all, is staggering. Regardless, most people, including the screeners, will happily hit the "yes"-button... And as ninehours recently reported ( here in the Contribution Rules Committee Forum): when you ask an entirely serious question about what a certain rule means, using a support ticket, Invelos' official answer is: "I don't have any information on this". Yet that particular question was about data we deal with pretty much every single day - not exactly some minor detail - and neither the users not Invelos seem to know if it should be contributed into the database or not. If they don't know what the rules say or mean, then how are we supposed to know? |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
As this is a feature film included as part of the bonus material for a single release it, without question, is a Bonus Feature Film. How do I know it is a single release? Because the entire case is designed around the one single film...Trouble in Paradise. How do I know the second film is part of the bonus material? Because the only place it is mentioned, is on the back of the case, in the section marked 'Special Features'.
Since this is a 'Bonus Feature Film', the Box Set rules do not apply. How do I know they don't apply? Because the rules tell me it is not the same as a Double Feature or Anthology Collection which require the "Box Set" contribution rules.
Since I can't use the 'Box Set' rules, I have to follow the 'Bonus Feature Film' rules and they tell me to "create the profile for the main feature in line with the standard Contribution Rules with the title of the Bonus Feature Film added to the Other Features field." The rules also tell me to, "create a child profile for the "Bonus Feature Film"..." Unfortunately, in this case, both features are on the same side of a single disc so that can't be done.
This is where the problem lies. Some believe we should bend the rules, as we did with Box Sets, because of the programs limitations. Others believe, because we don't do it for other bonus features, that we should not. Speaking for myself, I probably would not add the cast/crew for the bonus film, but I can certainly see why it was done. +1 | | | | www.tvmaze.com |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
As this is a feature film included as part of the bonus material for a single release it, without question, is a Bonus Feature Film. How do I know it is a single release? Because the entire case is designed around the one single film...Trouble in Paradise. How do I know the second film is part of the bonus material? Because the only place it is mentioned, is on the back of the case, in the section marked 'Special Features'.
Since this is a 'Bonus Feature Film', the Box Set rules do not apply. How do I know they don't apply? Because the rules tell me it is not the same as a Double Feature or Anthology Collection which require the "Box Set" contribution rules.
Since I can't use the 'Box Set' rules, I have to follow the 'Bonus Feature Film' rules and they tell me to "create the profile for the main feature in line with the standard Contribution Rules with the title of the Bonus Feature Film added to the Other Features field." The rules also tell me to, "create a child profile for the "Bonus Feature Film"..." Unfortunately, in this case, both features are on the same side of a single disc so that can't be done.
This is where the problem lies. Some believe we should bend the rules, as we did with Box Sets, because of the programs limitations. Others believe, because we don't do it for other bonus features, that we should not. Speaking for myself, I probably would not add the cast/crew for the bonus film, but I can certainly see why it was done. Once again you are able to put my thoughts into words - thank you. Since the basic problem is "...both features are on the same side of a single disc so that can't be done." How might the rules be simply updated or amended so that it can be done? |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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