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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Location crew. |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I was auditing "The Bourne Identity" and found a problem.
If we go by one interpretation as some would like, then many the main credits are gone, because they are listed under "Main Unit". Therefor the online profile is inaccurate and contains "wrong" information.
But if we are allowed to include the "Main Unit", then why can we also not include the other location units/crews that are also in the credits (not including the 3 2nd units that are also in the credits)
Direction:
Doug Liman: Director
Writing:
Tony Gilroy: Screenwriter
William Blake Herron: Screenwriter
Robert Ludlum: Original Material By
Production:
Frank Marshall: Executive Producer
Doug Liman: Producer
Patrick Crowley: Producer
Richard N. Gladstein: Producer
Robert Ludlum: Executive Producer
Cinematography:
Oliver Wood: Director of Photography
Film Editing:
Saar Klein: Film Editor
Music:
John Powell: Composer
Moby : Song Writer
Sound:
Per Hallberg: Supervising Sound Editor
Karen M. Baker: Supervising Sound Editor
Soudelux
Scott Millan: Sound Re-Recording Mixer
Bob Beemer: Sound Re-Recording Mixer
Fred W. Peck III: Sound Re-Recording Mixer
Art:
Dan Weil: Production Designer
Pierre-Yves Gayraud: Costume Designer
Peter Donen: Visual Effects
Jean-Christophe Spadaccini: Make-up Effects
Illusion Arts, Inc.
Syd Dutton: Visual Effects
Bill Taylor: Visual Effects
Pacific Title Digital
Industrial Light & Magic
Stefen Fangmeier: Visual Effects
Main Unit
Sound:
Bernard Bats: Production Sound Mixer
Art:
Bettina von den Steinen: Art Director
Laurent Piron: Art Director
Jean-Luc Russier: Make-up Artist
Patricia Planche: Make-up Artist
Jean-Christophe Spadaccini: Make-up Effects
Christian Calviera: Costume Designer
Philippe Hubin: Visual Effects
Prague Crew
Art:
Jirka Farkas: Make-up Artist
Tamara Koubová: Make-up Artist
Hana Kucerová: Costume Designer
Greece Unit
Art:
Costas Papas: Art Director |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | To me, the unit rule is not a prohibition against any and all roles that might occur under a heading that contains the word unit. The "such as" clarifies this with an example of "unit photographer" which is a subsidiary role to the DOP. The purpose, IMO, is to eliminate duplicative listings of lower rung secondary crew.
In Charlie's example above, the "main unit" are primary crew members. Without them, we eliminate the PSM and most of the art crew.
The Prague Crew and Greece Units are clearly subsidiary crew to the main unit. I would not list any of those.
I think it's a misunderstanding of the rule if we quote only the "do not list unit crew" phrase without giving any importance to the "such as unit photographer" phrase that is also part of that rule. That's where word-for-word readings can miss the wider rule. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quote:
Do not enter unit crew such as "Unit Photographer" I think that's where the confusion is coming from. Some people are looking at the first part "unit crew" and thus saying that all crew that is listed under a "Unit" grouping is disallowed. Whereas others are looking at the "Unit Photographer" as an example of what not to include and that "Unit" is attached to the persons credit. Such as "2nd Unit Art Director" or "England Unit Makeup Artist". But if someone is credited as just an "Art Director" under something like "England Unit" then it's allowed. So I agree that the rules wording can be interpreted in different ways and allow or disallow certain credits depending on how the person is understanding the rule. Perhaps this should be brought up in the rules forum and see if it can be reworded to be made more clear as to the intent of the rule. Personally I leave these credits out if I see either Unit attached to the grouping or the individual persons credited role. |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think we need to bump this again. I would really like to see a resolution to this.
Is there a way we can come up with a Rules proposal to submit? Maybe that will help.
Charlie |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Is there a way we can come up with a Rules proposal to submit?
I think that submitting a rule proposal is possible. But having a consensus on it is quite impossible, when you have here people who fight to correct errors, and other people who fight to add those errors voluntarily. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
To me, the unit rule is not a prohibition against any and all roles that might occur under a heading that contains the word unit. The "such as" clarifies this with an example of "unit photographer" which is a subsidiary role to the DOP. The purpose, IMO, is to eliminate duplicative listings of lower rung secondary crew.
In Charlie's example above, the "main unit" are primary crew members. Without them, we eliminate the PSM and most of the art crew.
The Prague Crew and Greece Units are clearly subsidiary crew to the main unit. I would not list any of those.
I think it's a misunderstanding of the rule if we quote only the "do not list unit crew" phrase without giving any importance to the "such as unit photographer" phrase that is also part of that rule. That's where word-for-word readings can miss the wider rule. I don't know how I missed this, but I think you are wrong in your assumptions here. What normally happens in a case like this is, instead of flying the make-up artists and art director to Prague and Greece, they left them at home and hired local talent. In these cases, they are not subsidiary crew, but crew doing the main job in that location. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I don't know how I missed this, but I think you are wrong in your assumptions here. What normally happens in a case like this is, instead of flying the make-up artists and art director to Prague and Greece, they left them at home and hired local talent. In these cases, they are not subsidiary crew, but crew doing the main job in that location. After seeing some further examples since then, I agree with you. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
After seeing some further examples since then, I agree with you. Well, now that I look at it, it was FIVE months ago.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I know that it has been awhile, but I figured instead of starting a whole new discussion, why not contiue the old one. That way we do not need to reference the thread. There was a discussion 3 years ago that basically everybody said "no way". Look where we have gotten to. Look hereCharlie |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
I know that it has been awhile, but I figured instead of starting a whole new discussion, why not contiue the old one. That way we do not need to reference the thread. I wasn't complaining, just noting that the post I responded to was five months old. Had I noticed that first, I probably wouldn't have replied because, as happened with James, opinions can change. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | And the Ping Pong starts
bump. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,741 |
| | Posted: | | | | I for one am very disappointed by this whole Unit/Location Crew thing that seems to have moved into the forefront recently. I have had some contributions declined because of it and others accepted.
I personally like data. I will probably not be contributing much in the line of crew any longer because of these silly unwritten rules that are open to interpretation. This includes whether we list descriptions for company dividers or not. If user A enters them without, I can't change it, but if I enter it first and include them, user A can't change it either...catch 22 and inconsistent data. Further, it seems like it depends on which screener and how they feel on that particular day whether crew get accepted or declined. Trust me, I'm not knocking the screeners, Lord knows they have a very tough job.
I just contributed crew for Timeline and because of these unwritten rules, one crew member gets in and others, who are just as important, get left out. I'm going back, through this one and enter them as see fit and lock it down. Unfortunately, this will be the case for a lot of the reaudits I do. Just my 2 cents. | | | | Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | While checking The Peacemaker (George Clooney) DVD's end credits I came across some Location Crew. After the Cast the Crew Section begins US CrewVisual Effects Supervisor Michael Backes Costume Supervisor Carlane Passman Little Makeup Supervisor Rolf John Keppler Makeup for Ms. Kidman Julie Hewett A Huge Space and then some other crew such as Assistants and others. New YorkArt Directors Dennis Bradford Keith Gonzales Production Sound Mixer Tom Nelson Makeup Lynn Campbell Los AngelesArt Director Wm Ladd Skinner European CrewAustriaGreat BritainProduction Sound Mixer Brian Simmons Special Effects Supervisor Richard Inns CroatiaArt Directors Ivo Husnjak Neno Pecur Czech RepublicFranceGermanyMacedoniaRussiaSlovakiaCostume Supervisor Darina Suranova Makeup Blazena Dollingerova Ludka Demovicova A Space and then the Supervising Sound Editors are listed. Right now this is what the Sound & Art Crew looks like in the profile: Quote:
Sound:
J. Paul Huntsman...Supervising Sound Editor
Victor Iorillo...Supervising Sound Editor
Andy Nelson...Sound Re-Recording Mixer
Anna Behlmer...Sound Re-Recording Mixer
Art:
Shelley Komarov...Costume Designer
Leslie Dilley...Production Designer
Michael Backes...Visual Effects
Carlane Passman Little...Costume Designer
Rolf John Keppler...Make-up Artist
Julie Hewett...Make-up Artist
Pacific Data ImagesPaul Wang...Visual Effects
Pacific Title DigitalDavid Sosalla...Visual Effects As can be seen those listed under US Crew is already listed except for the Location Crews and anybody listed under European Crew and those Location Crews. So why is it fine to only include those under US Crew but not the Location Crew or European Crews? |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,741 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CubbyUps: Quote:
As can be seen those listed under US Crew is already listed except for the Location Crews and anybody listed under European Crew and those Location Crews.
So why is it fine to only include those under US Crew but not the Location Crew or European Crews? I completely agree with you on this. Also, Location Crews are OK but Location Units are not...What's the difference? | | | | Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Mreeder:
I am afraid i don't see anything that indicates that Location Crew can be included. We have never allowed them to date. I suspect that you bassing your statement on the Location Unit but no mention at all of Location Crew and then supposing that Crew is Ok, which would be wrong. By that standard we should include any credit that is not specifically mention as unaccepatble, which would include Accountants, Grips, Caterers and so forth. Neither location crew or units are currently allowed under the Rules | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: June 21, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,621 |
| | Posted: | | | | Sound people are almost always the except, just the way most credits roll. They're usually stuck in the end, often under a "post production" unit.
If there was some uniform way movie credits were given, thsi wouldn't be an issue. But since film to film has vastlky different readings and interpetations, the debate will probably never end. It may take a break, but someone will bring it up again. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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