Quoting Kulju:

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For example, some time ago I did  full Cast & Crew for all "Oz" seasons, but since I did it for so small release (Finnish), only very few people get any benefit out of it. It's just plain stupid system that maybe someone will do the same work again for the US releases and then another for the UK releases and so on.

I already did (for seasons 2-5... don't own six, one was already mostly filled out but with some bad info, so I've left it for now). So in response I say... sumofabatch!!!!  Wish I had known this before I sat in from of my 'puter for a week and a half straight. 

For the topic at hand, count me in those +1 people that agree with Martian and m.cellophane. Opening up to full credits, is just inviting a world of hurt, and I have yet to see a single person say "we should do this" or "I want this". I just don't like the idea of open crew. We have too many problems at the moment with what we have that just are NOT being solved. I think this would only create more, and in turn, those problems would continue to go unsolved as well (even with something small, such as common name threads... no one except maybe the people that participate in them do anything to help clear up the CLT. There's a distinctly small set of users willing to do a TON of work, and they can't be counted on to do everything. Search the almost non-existent name of Robert G. Tapert in the CLT and see how many profiles he still has listed under that name even with a common name thread that easily cleared up the fact that he's only been credited that way for a single film).

What I wouldn't mind, is if this was implemented, if there was still a "base" crew to work with. Say, exactly the same crew we have now. And if someone took the time to audit a full crew list right down to drivers, and submitted it, the user downloading it into their local had the choice of downloading the full crew, or just downloading the "base" crew as it were.

Also in agreement with m.cellophane and Martian (and others  ) that such a change doesn't really seem to be necessary to solve the problems we have. And for such a thing to come about so many "if"s come up. The only way an open crew system would work is "if" this and "if" that were to be implemented.

First and foremost, a new linking system, as others have stated, is absolutely imperative if such a system were implemented (and even without this open crew idea, I think I speak for most when I say, we need this!). And that alone would require a ton of work in and of itself, so that's step 1 and should happen well before any sort of crew additions in my opinion.

Then if open crew credits were implemented there would have to be a really complicated yet easy (I know it's somewhat of an oxymoron  ) way to filter what you download and what you contribute. And this means a lot more than the 10 or so categories we currently have. As someone stated in the other thread that this came up. There are sometimes 100s of different visual effects crew alone. And if someone wanted just the "important" ones, how could they be filtered? They would probably be under the same category, right? If not, that means a lot of categories.

Same goes for things like "Co-..." and "2nd Unit..." Crew. Unless we had separate filters (categories?) for all different levels of crew, trying to get your local database to be any use at all would be a real pain. Is that something we want all the potential users to go through? Especially since as the program stands, everyone has the ability to enter every credit they desire already with Custom Fields. So who is this change really for?

I'd be willing to bet that anyone (and I haven't seen one yet) interested in all crew data will be auditing their own titles anyway. And while I don't know this for a fact, I really don't see how open credits can be achieved without sacrificing usability of the average user (ie. the majority...yes I said the evil word Skip  ).

So what we need to fix the arguments in the forums (which is what brought about this whole suggestion in the first place), is a frequently updated crew table first and foremost, and more input from Invelos. It really is as simple as that. And with both of those things accomplished, arguing on the forums (at least involving crew) will be kept to a minimum.

There's my wordy 2 cents. 

First off, Ace. Both of the proposals are waaay beyond anything that IMDb odes, they do not really use As Credited data in any way in their crew data. So duplicating IMDb is not even in the cards, either proposal elevates Profiler to another level of accuracy and one in oparticular takes it to the ultimate level of not only accuracy, but if there are users who are interested in such data, insanity as well.

I am not surprised at the sources of the negative remarks, I am however disappointed in the Forum Moderator: Removed and the willingness of people to deny data to those who might be interested. One user in particular surprised me by saying he has not seen anybody ever express interest, this same user likes to point out that very few users actually come to the Forums  so Rules changes and so forth cannot rely on the Forums and now he makes a claim which is 180 degrees in reverse from that. From my own viewpoint we definitely are not capturing enough data yet, as I have said before, I am not interested in Full credits myself, but if there is ANY user out there who is, I just don't have the right to tell him he can't , that is just a wrong attitude all the way around. I am not surprised at the attitude of the naysayers, but disappointed that they would actually believe that they have the right to say No. Particualrly since it would be entirely within the realm of possibility to leave everyone of us in complete control of what data we choose to accept or not. It is not only disappointing but shocking.

Were I Ken I would at the very least implement Pete's expanded credits as soon as possible and may well implement Full Credits at some future point. As I have noted thos would eliminate all of the discssions and the back and forth, and further for those who claim just having Invelos's involvement will do the same thing, (1)do we really need Daddy to change our diapers, I don't but more importantly (2) Invelos is a small comapny and we have one developer of the program, the more he and his wife have to spend playing Forum cop the less time they have to develop the program,personally I want Ken developing the program, not dealing with every little issue that comes up in the Forums.

Like I said Pet's Plan  would elevate our accuracy level to 80-90%, instead of having muddy water for data, we would have clearly delineated data, that would not be shoehorned in and much of it losing its definition in process of shoehorning.
BTW, for those who like to thow around buzzwords like useable and functional, these are subjective terms at best, what is useable and functional to one may not be to another. From my point of view both usability and functionality have been grossly degraded, in some respects to the point of near non-functionality, and much of that is courtesy of the same selfish attitude on display here.
Skip

Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:

Quote:
Two major points for Skip: Here, as always, selfishness isn't the only reason to disagree with you. Besides, who are these poor people who want the data we selfish bastards are oppressing and why can't they just use IMDB if they want to cross-reference caterers?

Second, IMDB does indeed use as credited data. Just like here, if there's an error, you can submit a correction. You like to pick on IMDB, but have repeatedly demonstrated you don't know what you are talking about.

Full credits, even if done in an ideal way, amount to a full-scale replica of IMDB's cast and crew project that would be just as much work to do with fewer people contributing and would be far less useful thanks to being limited to DVD Profiler.

Ace:

IMDb is neither accurate nor complete. So that's invalid and irrelevant. For ine thing this not a poll, it is inteneded to DISCUSS the issue, to provide information to analyze them, identify issues , try to come up with solutions. Not for a FEW users to set themselves, in their usual manner, as roadblocks to any change in which they are not interested.

Forum Moderator: Removed

Skip

How is this a discussion? Give your opinion that's not in line with the OP and get labeled selfish?   

A discussion is asked for and a discussion is given, full of opposing opinions and different ideas (like most discussions). No reason to start belittling people just because they have their own ideas on what's best for the program/community. 

Quoting Vittra:

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How is this a discussion? Give your opinion that's not in line with the OP and get labeled selfish?   

A discussion is asked for and a discussion is given, full of opposing opinions and different ideas (like most discussions). No reason to start belittling people just because they have their own ideas on what's best for the program/community. 

I haven't seen any discussion, several thinly veiled insulting comments, but I have seen absolutely NO DISCUSSION.

BTW Vittra, if you want to talk about belittling comments, we have several people who re pros at it and are allowed to get away with it. As lons that remains true....

Skip

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

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Quoting Vittra:

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How is this a discussion? Give your opinion that's not in line with the OP and get labeled selfish?   

A discussion is asked for and a discussion is given, full of opposing opinions and different ideas (like most discussions). No reason to start belittling people just because they have their own ideas on what's best for the program/community. 

I haven't seen any discussion, several thinly veiled insulting comments, but I have seen absolutely NO DISCUSSION.

BTW Vittra, if you want to talk about belittling comments, we have several people who re pros at it and are allowed to get away with it. As lons that remains true....

Skip

Just because someone doesn't share the same opinion as you, it makes their remarks neither selfish nor belittling. 

Sorry re-reading this thread I just saw this post.

Quoting m.cellophane:

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Quoting Addicted2DVD:

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Well you all know my preference.

I actually don't. I searched through some of your prior posts, but I'm still not clear on what Pete's suggestion is.

I do not want all crew credits. If Ken wants to add some more crew it is up to him... but I am fine with what we have now. I do want a credited as type thing for Roles. This way we have it in profiler just like we do for cast and crew names. what you quoted below is how I want it.

Quoting Addicted2DVD:

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Category - brings up choices (as it does now) Click on Choice (Director) - Opens Text Field (Type in Co-Director) And all this be contributable so we sorta have a credited as for Crew Jobs as we do names. And yet when you filter on Directors it gets it from the job list under each category. So it will bring up Directors you get results of Directors and Co-Directors (if we decided on all crew per section that is).

With the exception of contributing the custom roles, we already have the capability you describe.

Then it should be easy to implement.. including the filtering to work off the provided role name I take it? I know I for one would be more inclined to do crew if we went with an as credited crew role... instead of having to attempt to decipher the crew chart.