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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Previous   Next
Contribution Rules-Update?
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBad Father
Registered: July 23, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 4,596
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Quoting RHo:
Quote:
First of all, we are not talking about credits here. We all agree that they have to come from the disc.


Sure we are...amongst the other things you mentioned.  Just in the past 2 days I've had to vote no on at least 10 contributions for credits where the contributor proudly stated that the credits were from IMDb .  You say "We all know" but "We" don't all know .
My WebGenDVD online Collection
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 3,475
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Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
First of all, we are not talking about credits here. We all agree that they have to come from the disc.


Sure we are...amongst the other things you mentioned.  Just in the past 2 days I've had to vote no on at least 10 contributions for credits where the contributor proudly stated that the credits were from IMDb .  You say "We all know" but "We" don't all know .


You know what IMDb stands for don't you?... I'm dumb blonde!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBad Father
Registered: July 23, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 4,596
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Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
You know what IMDb stands for don't you?... I'm dumb blonde!


. Don't get me started.  I've gotten in trouble for blond jokes before .
My WebGenDVD online Collection
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
There is a difference between researching via third party sites and copying data from third party sites.  Use your best judgement.  To give a couple of examples:

- Checking a few online retailers to find a consensus for an upcoming DVD's release date: OK
- Copying the cast and crew (via automation or not) from the IMDB: NOT OK


Thank you for clarifying that!

That is exactly what I was trying to say!
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,394
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Quoting verdejt:
Quote:
You can call it what you want but if you take that information without giving proper credit then you are stealing. In this age of computers there is a new crime that is abound and can be prosecuted for this. Taking information directly from website/database without proper credit is stealing.

I'm not a lawyer (and don't play one on TV, either) but it's been my understanding that no one can copyrite DATA.  What owners of a database CAN copyrite is the way said data is formatted, or the intellectual property of the data.  To me this means that if I go to IMDB and see that a film has a release date of June 26, 2007 and I enter that date into Profiler, I have stolen nothing - since release date is public information.  The same for Country of Origin, SRP, UPC, Running Time, etc.  These bits of data have no intellectual property value.  But if you copy the Plot Summary that would be stealing the intellectual property of the writer, and by extension, IMDB.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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[soapbox]Any terms we use in the rules which are either specific to the program or may be confusing or interpreted in different ways need to be well defined within the rules themselves.  Despite Unicus's calls for simplicity, lack of definition can cause more confusion than slightly longer wordings.  Better of course to be able to be able to use terms that don't need specialized definitions, but that's not always possible.[/soapbox]


What Kinematics said above is exactly what applies to the rewrite of the contribution rules for boxsets.  Several people are griping that they are too long, etc.  If it wasn't for the fact that so many people have a problem with simple wording, a longer version that spells it out with fewer loopholes is far more important.

I figure the newbies are either going to read the rules (however long they might be) or they aren't.  We're going to have to deal with the ones that don't regardless, but maybe if the rules are more precise and specific, albeit longer, it will help those who do read them avoid some mistakes that are often made otherwise.  So let's leave off with this obsession to squeeze all the juice out of the words to make everything more concise, and concentrate instead on making sure things are specific and leave no wiggle room - even if that means longer rules.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantpdmaia
Registered: June 3, 2007
Portugal Posts: 12
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Hello,
First things first, I’m what you may call a "newbie" as far as contributions are concerned. In fact it’s my first post here, although I use DVDP for quite some time. Just to keep my story short, I decided to start contributing for 2 main reasons:
1 – To help making the IV database bigger and better acknowledging all the work done by many others;
2 – To help correct some human mistakes.

What I would like to focus on is exactly this last point. When I read that we cannot copy from 3rd party databases, I question myself what this EXACTLY means. As 8ballMax said before, I’m one of the people he “had to vote no on at least 10 contributions for credits where the contributor proudly stated that the credits were from IMDb”. I’m sure it was my mistake on saying that, but what happened exactly was that I CHECKED the credits with the IMDB database. And why is that? Simply because there are a lot of human mistakes everywhere, mainly in DVD editions different from the American/English ones. Being from Portugal and having a lot of Portuguese and Spanish editions, I realize some times that the information on the DVD is incorrect, mainly in what concerns spelling. That is why I like to check with some other sources, besides the DVD itself. And believe me you would be surprised if you could see the errors we can find on foreigner editions…

This said, what is exactly wrong in checking the information with 3rd party databases? It’s not that we copy it, it’s just a matter of cross-checking the information to get it as accurate as possible. Isn’t it what this is all about? Is it correct to deny a contribution just because a 3rd party database is mentioned, even if its’ information and the one from the DVD are the same?

I’m sorry for this long text, but being the 1st one, I hope you can forgive me

I just leave you with one question: I got a Spanish Edition of a DVD “shot down” for 3 times, the last one because I mentioned IMDB. The information I entered is correct and CHECKED, mainly because I noticed the one from the DVD had some minor mistakes. So, now the IV database is missing this record. Is this the right way of doing things?

One more note:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
(...)
- Copying the cast and crew (via automation or not) from the IMDB: NOT OK

And if it's the same as it is in the DVD itself, why NOT OK?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKevin
Registered March 22, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 609
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Because IMDB data never matches the DVD credits.

Again, because IMDB is user driven, and driven badly at that.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantverdejt
Registered: May 26, 2007
United States Posts: 117
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I was referring to items like the plot summary and reviews and other written words. Yes you are correct in your statement about Data. Thanks for pointing that out. That was the point I was trying to make.
Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
Quoting verdejt:
Quote:
You can call it what you want but if you take that information without giving proper credit then you are stealing. In this age of computers there is a new crime that is abound and can be prosecuted for this. Taking information directly from website/database without proper credit is stealing.

I'm not a lawyer (and don't play one on TV, either) but it's been my understanding that no one can copyrite DATA.  What owners of a database CAN copyrite is the way said data is formatted, or the intellectual property of the data.  To me this means that if I go to IMDB and see that a film has a release date of June 26, 2007 and I enter that date into Profiler, I have stolen nothing - since release date is public information.  The same for Country of Origin, SRP, UPC, Running Time, etc.  These bits of data have no intellectual property value.  But if you copy the Plot Summary that would be stealing the intellectual property of the writer, and by extension, IMDB.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,334
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actually when it comes to the plot summery the rule is very clear...

Rules Quote:
Quote:
Overviews should match the back of the DVD case exactly, including capitalization of words exactly as it is shown on the back of the case. If words are highlighted in italic or bold on the case, then identify them with ‘single quotation’ marks.  Exception: If the entire overview uses an uppercase font, enter the overview using standard capitalization rules.


As you can see in the section I put in bold... you must copy what is on the back of the case... which includes any mistakes that may have been made on the case... you just copy what you see.

Reviews are not contributed to the main database so not sure what you meant there.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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Quoting pdmaia:
Quote:

This said, what is exactly wrong in checking the information with 3rd party databases? It’s not that we copy it, it’s just a matter of cross-checking the information to get it as accurate as possible. Isn’t it what this is all about? Is it correct to deny a contribution just because a 3rd party database is mentioned, even if its’ information and the one from the DVD are the same?
<snip>
I just leave you with one question: I got a Spanish Edition of a DVD “shot down” for 3 times, the last one because I mentioned IMDB. The information I entered is correct and CHECKED, mainly because I noticed the one from the DVD had some minor mistakes. So, now the IV database is missing this record. Is this the right way of doing things?
<snip>
And if it's the same as it is in the DVD itself, why NOT OK?


If your information is from the DVD itself then you don't need to crosscheck it or look at any 3rd party sources. Resubmit and just say the information came from the DVD - there should be no problem with that.
The only time we're allowed to use other databases is when the information is not available on the DVD. In these cases it's best to quote at least 2 or 3 sources, just to show the information is consistent. IMDB is allowed to be one of those sources, but not the only one.
If you are correcting a mistake that's on the DVD, again give a few sources verifying this, not just one.
Hope this helps!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantpdmaia
Registered: June 3, 2007
Portugal Posts: 12
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Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
(...)If your information is from the DVD itself then you don't need to crosscheck it or look at any 3rd party sources.(...)

Yes, I would agree with you if we lived in a perfect world, the problem is we don't. And again I remember that there are much more editions than the english spoken ones and those sometimes carry a few spelling errors (I can easily show you a few, if you wish). Hence the need for crosschecking.

Quote:
(...)In these cases it's best to quote at least 2 or 3 sources, just to show the information is consistent.(...)

I Agree entirely and always do it whenever needed.

Quoting kevin:
Quote:
Because IMDB data never matches the DVD credits.
Again, because IMDB is user driven, and driven badly at that

As per professional habit, I prefer more unbiased opinions, nevertheless let me add a question: isn't the IV database "user driven"? This being the case, are we better users than the others? 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKevin
Registered March 22, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 609
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All you have to do is look at the credits. IMDB stuff doesn't match the actual film credits. IMDB makes up names, roles, etc.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,334
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Quoting pdmaia:
Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
(...)If your information is from the DVD itself then you don't need to crosscheck it or look at any 3rd party sources.(...)

Yes, I would agree with you if we lived in a perfect world, the problem is we don't. And again I remember that there are much more editions than the english spoken ones and those sometimes carry a few spelling errors (I can easily show you a few, if you wish). Hence the need for crosschecking.


Except you are ignoring these rule...

Rules Quote:
Quote:
For any film with standard credits, take the actor information from the end credits only, with names and roles listed exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited.  Exception: If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules instead.


If you are checking for spelling errors and changing the cast/character names to match something other then the credits you are breaking the rules and it should be voted no on.

And as you can see below... it is the same for the crew credits...

Rules Quote:
Quote:
Take Crew Credits from the film credits only; list names exactly as they are in the credits. Exception: If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules instead.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting pdmaia:
Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
(...)If your information is from the DVD itself then you don't need to crosscheck it or look at any 3rd party sources.(...)

Yes, I would agree with you if we lived in a perfect world, the problem is we don't. And again I remember that there are much more editions than the english spoken ones and those sometimes carry a few spelling errors (I can easily show you a few, if you wish). Hence the need for crosschecking.

Quote:
(...)In these cases it's best to quote at least 2 or 3 sources, just to show the information is consistent.(...)

I Agree entirely and always do it whenever needed.

Quoting kevin:
Quote:
Because IMDB data never matches the DVD credits.
Again, because IMDB is user driven, and driven badly at that

As per professional habit, I prefer more unbiased opinions, nevertheless let me add a question: isn't the IV database "user driven"? This being the case, are we better users than the others? 


It is user-built, not user-driven, pdmania. We have Rules that we all follow. Your local database is user-driven and there cyou can dow WHATEVER it is wish and you can follow your own Rules, just keep it local i you are following YOUR own Rules and they are Contrary to the Online Rules.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgardibolt
digitally Obsessed
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,414
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Quoting Kevin:
Quote:
Because IMDB data never matches the DVD credits.

Again, because IMDB is user driven, and driven badly at that.


That's an absurd overstatement.  While there are errors in the IMDB, there are some profiles (which usually will say "confirmed against credits" or something like that) that exactly match the movie's credits.  DVDP's database is also user driven, driven badly, and has broken linking to top it off.  Smug superiority is way out of place here.
"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."
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