Quoting ya_shin:

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If someone feel the credits need to be addressed as well, then maybe a separate thread would be better?

I just suggest this in the rules committee thread on this topic!

Quoting Closed:

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The problem here Achim is despite even surfeur's acknowledgement that there is no actual Rule regarding diacriticals, some seem to believe that diacriticals and capitalization go hand in hand.<shrugs>And that can be proven to not be true simply by the movies that do include credit listings where sometimes a diacritical for a name but for another actor/crew with a similar name the diacritical is not used. So for example you might see a Francois and a François the same Credit list, or a Jose and a José. These aren't common but they are out there. I wish i could think of one right this second but i have seen a number of such and i am certain that we all have.

If they are already in mixed case in the film credits, there is no issue, since no conversion is required.  Enter exactly what you see.

One more time, we are talking about properly converting all caps to mixed case.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Quoting Closed:

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Unless you have a credit that actually reads Francois Berleand, the you would still have surfeur buzzing on about the correct name, and don't say it isn't possible. Everything is possible in credits.

It might be entertaining to watch surfeur spin in such a credit because there would only be one possible way to argue it and he would do it in a minute. I can hear him now.

Since he already said that, for a Hollywood movie, FRANCOIS BERLEAND would be converted to Francois Berleand, I doubt he would argue against Francois Berleand being entered as Francois Berleand.  I could, of course, be wrong on this.

To be clear :
In the first sentence of my proposal, I wrote "Those reflect exactly data that appear on the cover of the DVD, or on the credits of the movie (so existing typos are reproduced as they are)." Francois Berleand is just two typos and has to be reproduced as such.

Note that this is not the rule I would prefer, but I think this is the one which matches better with what most people here prefer.

The proposal I made about credits, using language of credits for both actors and roles, is to have consistency at least inside a single profile. I would prefer personaly just a correct spelling, so always François Berléand. My proposal was a compromise for those who think that it is too difficult to restore correctly accents, and the corresponding disadvantage can be corrected by CLT. But of course if the majority is for real name in all "all caps" cases (except existing typos), I find it, by far, the best solution.

This would be :

FRANCOIS BERLEAND > François Berléand
Francois Berleand      > François Berléand (credited as Francois Berleand)
FRANCOIS BERLEANT > François Berléand (credited as François Berléant)

Line 1 & 3 NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yves. That is adding fictional data

If you said
FRANCOIS BERLEANT >François Berléand (credited as Francois Berleant) I am right there with you, but not as you wrote it.

FRANCOIS BERLEAND > François Berléand Fiction again

FRANCOIS BERLEAND > François Berléand (Francois Berleand) OK

Quoting Closed:

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Your example betrayed you Yves. Your example is a you win and some of us lose, which I can't support. I'll support a win win such as I described.

You're solution ignores the fact that the Common Name currently must be determined by the CLT.

If the CLT says the most common form of the credit is Francois Berleand

and the credit in the actual film is FRANCOIS BERLEAND

Then according to your method it must be entered as 'Francois Berleand (no credited as)'.

That's a win for you, and a lose for Yves (and the accuracy of the data).

Yves does not win, since he wants to see 'Francois Berleand [François Berléand]' to reflect the correct spelling AFTER converting it from all caps.  Or better yet, 'François Berléand (no credited as)'.

Quoting Closed:

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And your method ignores that we already have a Rule and you want to not just change it but undo it.

And you, unfortunately, are ignoring the fact that the rule we have makes absolutely no sense.  It says to use 'standard capitalization rules'.  Two problems with that.  First, capitalization rules are not universals.  What is standard for you, is not standard for Surfeur.  Second, there is no standard capitalization rule that tells you how to convert names, that are in all uppercase, into mixed case.  I am sorry, but there aren't.  There are spelling and grammar rules, even common practice, but no hard and fast rule that you can point to.  That, is why there was so much confusion back in '08, and that is why Ken made his clarification.

Quoting Closed:

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And your method ignores that we already have a Rule and you want to not just change it but undo it.

JHal you aren't that stupid. You just want to argue. I am asking for a mod to the way we handle CA so that Yves and others can have what they want. That is a win-win.   Sometimes, Hal, sometimes<shakes head in utter amazement>

No, actually, we do not have a Rule at all.  Nowhere in the Rules is there any language telling us how to convert all caps to mixed case.

What there is, is a statement by Ken in these forums about how he thinks it should be done.  Yes, such a statement probably carries the weight of a "real" Rule, but technically, it's not in the Rules.

Your asking for a mod to the CA system (which you have not clearly defined, even though I have asked you to).  The CA system which is defined in the Rules.

So, let me get this straight.  It's perfectly OK for you to ask for a change to the existing Rules, but I'm out of line when I ask Ken to change his position on a statement that he made in the forums that's not in the Rules.

OK.  I get it now.