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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Lazy contributors? |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting MikaLove: Quote:
if a contribution isn't correct and I have done enough research to find that it has errors, I have the right to point that out and people should notice this. But still there are people voting yes and contributions are approved. This irritates me too, and the way I handle it is to not vote or contribute very often. It really irritates me when correct information is changed to incorrect, but the contribution is accepted because enough people blindly vote "yes" and there are "significant" improvements being made. I've pretty much given up on caring about what is in the online database. I usually will audit my own database after viewing DVDs and keep my corrections to myself. --------------- |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | MikaLove,
Just because CLT result don't mean that much to me does not mean that this information, and its accuracy, is not important to others.
There are many things that bother me as far as the contribution process is concerned that you would probably find trivial.
These types of issues come up in the contribution and voting processes all the time. They can be frustrating but there are only so many things we can do.
If anyone in the community finds contribution data that is not accurate there are several steps that can be taken to rectify this situation.
First, vote "no" and include your rationale for doing so.
Secondly, send a private message to the contributor alerting them to the issues that you have red flagged.
I have done this hundreds of times, usually before voting, and I can not think of a single time that the person has not fixed the problem.
Or, it might be that I have made the mistake and the contributor clarifies the issue for me.
Third, if there continues to be a disagreement, post the issue in the forums to get more feedback.
Although there might never be a 100% consensus, the forums will be a good indicator on how most people feel about the situation.
Finally, we have the ability to lock our local database. We do not have to accept any data that has been contributed by others if we are unsure of its accuracy.
If a contribution goes through with errors, it is quite easy to resubmit the profile with the correct information.
I understand your desire to have contributors, contributions and voters strive for perfection and get everything 100% right.
The online database does have lots of mistakes. But, overtime these errors will be caught and eventually this lead to increase accuracy.
Perfection and 100% accuracy will not and can not happen though. One only needs to read through the forums to realize the folly in this desire.
The issues you bring up would lead to an improved, more accurate database. I don't believe any one would dispute that. Over time I hope that the database achieves the results you want.
You are quite correct that the number of movies you own or contributions you have made have no bearing on the issues at hand.
Personally, I don't care how many DVDs you own, where you are from, what language you speak or any other personal information. You are as vital a member of this community as any other.
It is never my intent to disrespect another. If I said anything that was offensive to you, I am sorry. | | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 823 |
| | Posted: | | | | Part of the problem is the reference to the "tool" as the "Credit Lookup Tool" or worse, the acronym "CLT," where it loses its true meaning to the fallacy of groupthink.
The "CLT," as everyone likes to call it, is a database query. Nothing more. If there is a lot of incorrect data in the database, the query will reflect it.
MikaLove is simply trying to bring this point into the open. Because of some of the negativity he uses (some of which may be related to English not being his first language), he is being attacked for this, which is understandable to some degree, but it does not make his point irrelevant. | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,550 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
You don't have to... but most people prefer too (myself included).
The rules on the matter is pretty clear though...
Rules Quote:
Quote:
The inclusion of CLT results in contribution notes is strongly desired but not required. Note: In the case of uncertainty, leaving this out may cause the contribution to be declined.
So going by what the rules say it don't have to be there... but as you can see even Invelos prefers them (CLT results in contribution notes is strongly desired). Thanks. Rather than doing "strongly desired", why not just require it? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I know there are some grey areas when it comes to the rules but this is unnecessarily one of them. Either require it or don't. None of this "strongly desired" BS. | | | | Last edited: by The Movieman |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Who knows why? I wondered that since he added it to the rules.
I am guessing because at the time it was discussed and added there was those that simply didn't think it was right to HAVE to add them when anyone could go look. So I guess Ken decided to word it that way because of so many against having to do so. But made it clear that it could lead to a decline if you don't add them.
But as you said... don't make a lot of sense to me either. I would have just required them if I wanted them. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting MikaLove: Quote:
But attacking ME about how many movies I have and anything else is both IRRELEVANT and a personal insult. Disrespectful and that p*ssed me off! From what I can tell, the person who "attacked" you only did so because you called him lazy...a personal insult that was disrespectful. If you hadn't called him lazy, I am quite sure you wouldn't have been "attacked".  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting MikaLove:
Quote:
But attacking ME about how many movies I have and anything else is both IRRELEVANT and a personal insult. Disrespectful and that p*ssed me off!
From what I can tell, the person who "attacked" you only did so because you called him lazy...a personal insult that was disrespectful. If you hadn't called him lazy, I am quite sure you wouldn't have been "attacked". As I am the person who 'attacked' I can confirm that the above statement is 100% correct. In addition when I started the Buck Flower common name thread, MikaLove attacked me for not doing it 'properly' and implied that I was lazy. My response to point out that his contribution rate isn't very high was purely in anger, and I did attempt to clarify this with a subsequent post. I shouldn't have even brought it into the discussion - and for that I am sorry. Now, I've apologised. Where is your apology, MikaLove? In one of your previous posts you stated: "Maybe I have several priorities in life!" - but when I used practically the same reason for not doing everything in the common name thread you said: "Do something right or don't do it at all". So where is your apology for attacking me in that manner? I was too busy, but at least I did something. And it is that that annoyed me in the common name thread and in this thread. You complain that votes are not accurate. You complain that contributions with common names are not accurate. But what I don't see is you starting common name threads yourself to try and solve the problem. My point is this: don't judge others unless you are willing to do the work yourself. Either way, I should not have brought how many contributions you have made into this discussion and, once again, I apologise. As you said yourself: don't attack me and I won't attack you. Also, it doesn't matter how angry or frustrated you are, there is absolutely no excuse for swearing at people in this forum. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 762 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting MikaLove: Quote:
To those concerned:
So now you're hassling me about the amount of contributions I have made? Maybe I have several priorities in life! Maybe I don't "live for Invelos". I love movies, I buy a lot. As much as my economy allows me to.
So shut the f*ck up!
I'm done debating here with you d*ckheads. Consider this my last post here, at least when it comes to "discussions", etc.
You have no damn right to judge me and MY LIFE, based on how many movies I own and buy and how much I sit at Invelos. Because when I DO contribute, I have taken the time.
So get down from your high horses. Or I'll push you down.
And you talk about arrogance... Get out in the real life for a change.  |
| | Registered: May 2, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 490 |
| | Posted: | | | | OK, so I made a long damn reply but there was an error so it wasn't sent.
Damn! And it's almost 6am here and I haven't gone to bed yet.
I'll cut things short: Stop being personal against me!
This was not directed at anyone in particular from the beginning!
So stop acting like that and that you have a reason to attack me.
I will rate all posts negatively that I regard as attacks.
Also, I will definitely not behave if people talk crap about me.
You know who you are, I hope.
This topic is not about me, it's about a general issue where there are some contributions that aren't very thought through and some votes that aren't thought through. That's it. And also the issue about some people thinking the CLT is so amazing. And it's not a great argument that "one is not required" to do a great deal of research before contributing. But then those people will learn the hard way.
However at times only after their darn contributions were approved and the DB is further filled with more errors. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting MikaLove: Quote:
I'll cut things short: Stop being personal against me!
This was not directed at anyone in particular from the beginning! Stop being personal against contributors and I am sure they will stop being personal against you. It has been pointed out, several times, that your original post was insulting in nature...the fact that it was a general post, rather than one directed at anyone in particular, doesn't make it less insulting. Each post since then has been just as insulting. Bottom line, if you are going to demand that people treat you with respect, you better be sure you are doing the same for them. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting MikaLove: Quote:
OK, so I made a long damn reply but there was an error so it wasn't sent.
Damn! And it's almost 6am here and I haven't gone to bed yet.
I'll cut things short: Stop being personal against me!
This was not directed at anyone in particular from the beginning!
So stop acting like that and that you have a reason to attack me.
I will rate all posts negatively that I regard as attacks.
Also, I will definitely not behave if people talk crap about me.
You know who you are, I hope.
This topic is not about me, it's about a general issue where there are some contributions that aren't very thought through and some votes that aren't thought through. That's it. And also the issue about some people thinking the CLT is so amazing. And it's not a great argument that "one is not required" to do a great deal of research before contributing. But then those people will learn the hard way.
However at times only after their darn contributions were approved and the DB is further filled with more errors. So, despite apologies being made as you requested, you are not capable of apologising yourself. You swear at people and accuse them of being lazy and yet you don't feel an apology is needed. You are simply not a very nice person in my opinion. As stated before: if you think the CLT is unreliable then start some common name threads to rectify the problems as you see them. |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I must agree with my alien friend, your initial post was insulting to a wide range of people. While you may not consider it an attack, many people took it personally, because of the way it was written.
Even though you are "demanding" an apology from people that directly attacked you, you have not offered an apology to the "group" in which you directly laid insult.
The only thing I have heard is the excuse that it is not your problem if people took it the wrong way. Well I disagree. It is "your" problem if "you" cannot express yourself in a way that is not perceived as an insult. Even if your original post was not meant as an insult, an apology for not expressing yourself correctly would have been appropriate (especially, since you started the thread).
While I disagree with the one real direct attack (in which he has already apologized), your rant with the name calling and expletives was not necessary, especially on what really can be conceived as a family friendly board. My grand children read the forums here(usually fairly tame, even with the arguments) , and really do not need to be exposed to such filth.
Charlie |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | As often, this thread turned to an insult/apologize totally uninteresting discussion. The problem raised by MikaLove is still there : is CLT an good tool and must contributors use it blindly or must they open a common name thread to change the result ?
My opinion is that CLT gives better results before common name threads since those threads often change "good" result (= name used by the actor/actress/crew to speak of him(her)self) to a "wrong" name (=used only by Invelos online database)).
Ken himself admits that the common name system doesn't work and he wrote he was working on a new system.
I personnaly think that:
1/ it is useless to work on those common name threads now.
2/ It is a pity to see users fighting with personal arguments about this.
3/ Most contributors really think they work for the community, but the result on the online is probably not what we would like (a database with linking, sorting, filtering functions that give good research results). | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
while refusing to post the CLTresults which they found.
You may remember I was a supporter of not having to list the CLT results in notes. However, I always do now - and I never see anyone else who doesn't include them. Are you really still seeing a lot of contributions from people who don't list them? Genuine question. Yes, I am my friend. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMovieman: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
You don't have to... but most people prefer too (myself included).
The rules on the matter is pretty clear though...
Rules Quote:
Quote:
The inclusion of CLT results in contribution notes is strongly desired but not required. Note: In the case of uncertainty, leaving this out may cause the contribution to be declined.
So going by what the rules say it don't have to be there... but as you can see even Invelos prefers them (CLT results in contribution notes is strongly desired).
Thanks. Rather than doing "strongly desired", why not just require it? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I know there are some grey areas when it comes to the rules but this is unnecessarily one of them. Either require it or don't. None of this "strongly desired" BS. It should be, but as the topic of this thread communicates there are those users who simply are too lazy to include the results. They don't want to expend the energy on a few extra keystrokes in order to provide the documentation when they can get away without it. Also as I have said repeatedly I would NEVER have implemeted the CLT system as we know it. It sets up a "priority" name and the basis for that priority name is an assumption that all Contributors are following the Rules as written, which we know is not ever going to happen, sadly. The system should be and will be redesigned. Will it be any better, only time will tell. I know how I would do it were it mine to implement. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Anyone who takes the time to contribute to the database are not "lazy".
If one wishes make the database and the CLT results more accurate, please feel free to do the work that entails. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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