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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,774 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting schaumi: Quote:
Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:
Quote:
[...]
Example: White Men Can't Jump
German Title on Cover: Weisse Jungs bringen's nicht
Got changed to: Weiße Jungs bringen's nicht
In my eyes this change was incorrect, at least it's harder this way to find this title by title search. No, it was correct, because by entering it into the title field you switch from CAPITALS to just normal spelling. And then "weisse" is wrong. The only way to keep the "SS" would be to enter the title all in CAPITALS. And we don't want to do this, don't we? Correct. If the title on the front would be "Weisse", the change is wrong. But since it is "WEISSE" it is correct. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Staid S Barr: Quote:
There is no need to capitalize ß, since a double ss does not occur at the start of any German word I think. We are talking about the case when the title on the cover is in ALL CAPS INCLUDING SS. This ALL CAPS TITLE has to be converted to Mixed Case and with this conversion SS may be converted to ss or ß depending on the title and locality. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting schaumi: Quote:
One example: Maße means translated into English the plural of measure , Masse however means mass. I don't know how the Swiss people handle that difference. In Switzerland the meaning (and pronunciation) of "Masse" depends on the context. This is usually the only example given by Germans to defend the usage of ß. I'm sure there are more examples but this the only one which is popular. On the other hand I'm sure there are other German examples as well where context is needed to get the meaning of a word. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting schaumi: Quote:
Very often the complete title is CAPITALIZED on the cover and/or in the film credits. Example: DAS GROSSE RENNEN RUND UM DIE WELT (= The Great Race).
Orthographically correct is "Das große Rennen rund um die Welt" and it should be entered that way into the title field. (...) This would not be true for the same release in the locality Switzerland.  | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting SpaceFreakMicha: Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
This is not very different than harbor/harbour in English. IMO, a profile should use correct spelling for the concerned locality. If it is a Germany locality, then use ß, if it is a Switzerland locality, then use SS, if that is what is correct in each places.
Not without a change in the rules. At the moment it's simply "Use the title from the front cover." Sure it is: DAS GROSSE RENNEN... would be de-capitalised to "Das große Rennen..." in the locality Germany but to "Das grosse Rennen..." in the locality Switzerland. Both variants completely according to the rules. |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting schaumi: Quote:
No, it was correct, because by entering it into the title field you switch from CAPITALS to just normal spelling. And then "weisse" is wrong. The only way to keep the "SS" would be to enter the title all in CAPITALS. And we don't want to do this, don't we? Well, this perfectly right argument has already been explained on other similar examples (accents), but some users have difficulties to understand it. | | | | Images from movies |
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| Registered: June 22, 2007 | | Posts: 89 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting schaumi:
Quote:
Very often the complete title is CAPITALIZED on the cover and/or in the film credits. Example: DAS GROSSE RENNEN RUND UM DIE WELT (= The Great Race).
Orthographically correct is "Das große Rennen rund um die Welt" and it should be entered that way into the title field. (...)
This would not be true for the same release in the locality Switzerland. I agree with You as long as there is an exclusive release for Switzerland (e.g. the second uncut HARRY POTTER film). As long as there is no special release for Switzerland but only one for Germany, Switzerland and Austria together, I think we should go with the majority and use the "ß" where necessary. But I am not familiar with Swiss releases. Is there always an extra Swiss release for every film? (If it is like that, then all the text on the backside would also have to be changed into "ss" as well.) |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting schaumi:
Quote:
No, it was correct, because by entering it into the title field you switch from CAPITALS to just normal spelling. And then "weisse" is wrong. The only way to keep the "SS" would be to enter the title all in CAPITALS. And we don't want to do this, don't we?
Well, this perfectly right argument has already been explained on other similar examples (accents), but some users have difficulties to understand it. Please stop saying that because we DO understand it. The problem is, Ken decided to go the other direction and, rather than complain about it, we moved on. You haven't, and that is fine, but please stop saying that some users don't understand it when that isn't the case. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting schaumi: Quote:
Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:
Quote:
[...]
Example: White Men Can't Jump
German Title on Cover: Weisse Jungs bringen's nicht
Got changed to: Weiße Jungs bringen's nicht
In my eyes this change was incorrect, at least it's harder this way to find this title by title search. No, it was correct, because by entering it into the title field you switch from CAPITALS to just normal spelling. And then "weisse" is wrong. The only way to keep the "SS" would be to enter the title all in CAPITALS. And we don't want to do this, don't we? Not only is it correct, but it is what Ken gave them permission to do. If Ken says it is o.k. to do then, at least in my opinion, it is o.k. to do. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,217 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting SwissFilm: Quote:
I really cannot understand the Germans, they write:
verbessern but schließlich Because they are spoken different. ß is not called "sharp s" for no reason!  Quote:
And I know from Germans that they very often even themselves do not know must I put a ß or ss. As it was already said: that's a problem of the pupil or his teacher. The whole ss/ß-ruling is easy as pie since the last Rechtschreibreform (spelling reform) After a hort vowel, as in Masse, Klasse, Kuss (mass, class, kiss): ss after a long vowel as in Maße, Fuß, groß (measurements, foot, big) or a diphthong (2 vowels spoken as one) like weiß, außen (white, outside): ß Quote:
How should we know when I search a German film if it is written with ß or ss As I said, you shouldn't have to. The program just should handle it right and treat 'ss' and 'ß' as one and the same searchstring. Works with google since the dawn of time.  cya, Mithi | | | | Mithi's little XSLT tinkering - the power of XML --- DVD-Profiler Mini-Wiki |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting schaumi: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting schaumi:
Quote:
Very often the complete title is CAPITALIZED on the cover and/or in the film credits. Example: DAS GROSSE RENNEN RUND UM DIE WELT (= The Great Race).
Orthographically correct is "Das große Rennen rund um die Welt" and it should be entered that way into the title field. (...)
This would not be true for the same release in the locality Switzerland. I agree with You as long as there is an exclusive release for Switzerland (e.g. the second uncut HARRY POTTER film). As long as there is no special release for Switzerland but only one for Germany, Switzerland and Austria together, I think we should go with the majority and use the "ß" where necessary. But I am not familiar with Swiss releases. Is there always an extra Swiss release for every film? (If it is like that, then all the text on the backside would also have to be changed into "ss" as well.) Even if the Swiss release is absolutely identical to the German release, we can create two profiles, one for Switzerland and one for Germany. That's the reason why profiler supports different localities in the first place. |
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| Registered: May 16, 2010 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 516 |
| | Posted: | | | | Wow, what a discussion :-). OK, I understand now much better. Mithi had a good aproach like Google does. You can search for Fuss or Fuß and it will find it. This is a good solution for me, if the software handels it both way and finds it. Google did it, I believe also Ken can do it for us :-).
The question about always a Swiss release or not I can anwer this way: I think about 98 % of the sold DVD and Blu-ray in Switzerland are the same as in Germany. A lot of Swiss also buy it at Amazon in Germany as there is no Amazon in Switzerland. There are sometimes different editions, especially as we often have the uncut version while Germans have the cut one. Then Germans often buy in Switzerland or Austria the uncut version :-).
Fritz | | | *
3D TV Panasonic TX-P65VT30J + Blu-ray Player Panasonic DMP-BDT500
My Filmcollection online: www.filmkino.ch
* |
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| Registered: May 16, 2010 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 516 |
| | Posted: | | | | What I do not understand as a user at the moment is the Titel and the Original Titel. Would f.e. for an American production the Original Titel be the Titel in Englisch and the Titel then the German translation, often with a totally other meaning, rarely translatet word by word. I think then Titel could be T4xi and Original titel then Taxi 4? But I am not sure at the moment, in the iPhone/iPad version it seems it does only search in the Titel, not in the Original Titel. Do you know about this?
I also see that in German profiles most of the time Original Titel is empty, not filled in.
Fritz | | | *
3D TV Panasonic TX-P65VT30J + Blu-ray Player Panasonic DMP-BDT500
My Filmcollection online: www.filmkino.ch
* |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is the official way how it is ruled: Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
All of this is academic anyway as Ken has already ruled on this situation here:
Quote:
"ß" is a relatively rare case in that there is no capital version. With instances such as this (if others are found), when there is no upper case equivalent to "ß", and if "ß" is routinely capped as "SS" in the native language, the "ß" character may be used. But I would like to see it the same way as we do it with accents: Simply add what you see. No further knowledge needed. |
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| Registered: June 22, 2007 | | Posts: 89 |
| | Posted: | | | | What's bad with knowledge?  | | | | Last edited: by schaumi |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting schaumi: Quote:
What's bad with knowledge? Nothing.  But for making this correct everybody around the world who profiles a title with double s in all caps needs to know when it gets to a ß or when it stays ss. And even with research he sometimes needs to do more research. (Masse or Maße) With just taking what you see: Less mistakes and differences. | | | | Last edited: by VirusPil |
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