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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Polar Express |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Rules :"For animated films or voice-only roles, use the "Voice" checkbox."
For me, this is not totally clear.
We can read, "For animated films or voice-only roles, you can use the "Voice" checkbox, for actors having voice only role."
or We can read, "For animated films or voice-only roles, you must use the "Voice" checkbox, in all cases."
For me, I have no doubt that the spirit of rules was first interpretation. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting KinoNiki:
Quote:
The rules don't even touch on the subject I'm talking about, that's why I unlike you don't assume any intent behind them. Your personal preference is apparently blocking you from seeing any other view.
Are you serious? The rules say "For animated films". As this is an 'animated film', I don't see how it can be seen any other way. From where I sit, you are the one with a personal preference that is blocking you from seeing any other view.
For the record, I do see where you are coming from, I just don't believe the rules allow for it. Then why are you questioning my motives? Yes, I'm serious. I seriously believe this type of animation is not covered by the rules because it was not anticipated. In any case, it needs to be made clearer. Is my opinion really any harder to grasp than your overzealous reading of the rules? | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | This converstaion is not helping answer the question.
Apparently we have different types of animation
most would have no question (Painted cell, stop motion, completely true cgi generated animation, where the characters have no resemblance of real people. (Toy Story, Beauty and the beast, Cars)
We also have animated films where the real person is inserted into the animated work (Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Speed Racer)
Then we have the area in between, where real people are used to created a semi animated appearance (Beowolf, Polar Express).
While all three truly have animation, some more than others, I do not believe that we can treat them in the same way.
Can someone truly say that John Goodman should only get a voice only credit for playing Pops Racer. Speed Race was an Animated flick.
The opposite for Tom Hanks in Toy Story. Nobody would think of giving an acting credit, only a voice credit.
Now we sit in a world of in between. Tom Hanks is the animation for the Conductor. No one would have a doubt. He was also the voice. But for the Hero Boy, Tom Hanks has a voice roll as the narration from the adult of the boy hero, Daryl Sabara, is the young voice, and Josh Hutcherson does the performance capture..
This is not cut and dry.
Charlie |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
Really, NO exceptions? Okay, how about Who Framed Roger Rabbit. It's animation, right? Since the rules don't say anything about how much has to be animation to count as animation... Certainly - For the for the animated parts. For the non-animated parts, no. |
| | Registered: September 30, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,805 |
| | Posted: | | | | No fighting people! No fighting!!  When the rules were written, I'm going to say that motion capture probably wasn't really a legitimate film option at the time (anyone know when the first important or "big" motion capture film was released?). So in my view, yes it's animation, so I can clearly see where people who want the voice box checked are coming from and can see how the rules support this. But in my view, it's also a much different form of animation. As I said before, these films as we know them today wouldn't exist without the actor actually performing the role as well. Body movements, facial expressions, etc. etc. So I can see why I (and others) think that the voice box should not be checked. It's something new that wasn't taken into account when the rules were written. So a nice solution is to open up one of these threads in the rules committee forum and let's get the rules updated to specifically include motion capture performances, one way or the other, so we all know how to handle it. No fighting! It's all good! | | | | The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Merrik: Quote:
No fighting people! No fighting!!
When the rules were written, I'm going to say that motion capture probably wasn't really a legitimate film option at the time (anyone know when the first important or "big" motion capture film was released?).
So in my view, yes it's animation, so I can clearly see where people who want the voice box checked are coming from and can see how the rules support this. This is where I have to correct you...just a little bit. Because this is the contribution forum, my answers are based on what the rules say, not what I want. The rules tell us that we are to use the voice check box for animated films, period. There is no exception for the animation method. Should there be? Maybe, but, in my opinion, that is a question for the rules forum, not the contribution forum. Quote:
But in my view, it's also a much different form of animation. As I said before, these films as we know them today wouldn't exist without the actor actually performing the role as well. Body movements, facial expressions, etc. etc. So I can see why I (and others) think that the voice box should not be checked. It's something new that wasn't taken into account when the rules were written. As I said earlier, I can see why people don't want to check the box but the rule is the rule and, in my opinion, it is quite clear. Quote:
So a nice solution is to open up one of these threads in the rules committee forum and let's get the rules updated to specifically include motion capture performances, one way or the other, so we all know how to handle it. That would be the best solution. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: September 30, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,805 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
This is where I have to correct you...just a little bit. Because this is the contribution forum, my answers are based on what the rules say, not what I want. The rules tell us that we are to use the voice check box for animated films, period. There is no exception for the animation method. Should there be? Maybe, but, in my opinion, that is a question for the rules forum, not the contribution forum. Which is why I put at the end of that sentence "and can see how the rules support this." I wasn't trying to imply that it's simply what you want and you were ignoring the rules or anything. I was agreeing. The rules say voice box for animation. Do I think it should apply in this situation? Nope! Do the rules say it should apply in this situation? Yup! Do I think that should be changed? Yup!  | | | | The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Merrik: Quote:
Which is why I put at the end of that sentence "and can see how the rules support this." Oops, I missed that part.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,878 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Merrik: Quote:
(anyone know when the first important or "big" motion capture film was released?) Looks like the first full-length motion capture was Sinbad: Beyond the Veil of Mists in 2000. Polar Express might be the first big one, at 2004. A Scanner Darkly, which was brought up earlier in the thread, isn't true motion capture, but interpolated rotoscope, and rotoscoping is an old, old animation technique. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 823 |
| | Posted: | | | | Guess it's time to do some updates... Andy Serkis in Lord of the Rings, Zoe Saldana in Avatar, etc... they all need the Voice checkboxes set now. At least according to TheMadMartian it seems! | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Grendell: Quote:
Guess it's time to do some updates... Andy Serkis in Lord of the Rings, Zoe Saldana in Avatar, etc... they all need the Voice checkboxes set now.  Zoe Saldana was nominated as best actress by Academy of Science Fiction Films, for her role in Avatar. That shows the consistency to put her, in dvdprofiler database, as voice only...  I find sad that a strict and restrictive reading of rules might be more important than get correct and useful data. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Grendell: Quote:
Guess it's time to do some updates... Andy Serkis in Lord of the Rings, Zoe Saldana in Avatar, etc... they all need the Voice checkboxes set now. At least according to TheMadMartian it seems! Once I get around to auditing them, that is exactly what I will do with the LotR credit for Andy Serkis. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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