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  Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5 ...7  Previous   Next
Brian Van't Hul parsing question... (Locked)
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMuckl
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Registered: April 9, 2009
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Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:
Quoting samuelrichardscott:
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Quoting VirusPil:
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Quoting Taro:
Quote:
...
In short:
- Someone enter Van 't in the last name field: I accept it without question as that is the general rule
- Someone enter Van 't in the middle name field: I would ask proof as it deviates from the general rule

This. ^ Based on the knowledge taken from this thread.

Even if there would be the possibility Van't could be not part of the last name, I always would give my choice to the much more common until different is proved.


Agreed 100%.


Yep, me too.


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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Taro:
Quote:
In short:
- Someone enter Van 't in the last name field: I accept it without question as that is the general rule
- Someone enter Van 't in the middle name field: I would ask proof as it deviates from the general rule

This is how I treat all articles that I am aware of.  This particular one, probably because I don't see very many Dutch actors, I wasn't sure of.  Now that I am, I will vote accordingly.  I do have one other question...most articles I am familiar with are all lowercase, is it the same here or is the the 'V', in Van't, uppercase?
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpaulb_99
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I do have one other question...most articles I am familiar with are all lowercase, is it the same here or is the the 'V', in Van't, uppercase?


When the first name is included it is, when there's only the last name it isn't.

Copied from the dutch wikipedia:
Voorvoegsels worden in Nederland niet met een hoofdletter geschreven (zoals in Jan van der Meulen, waarin "van der" met kleine letters wordt geschreven), tenzij de voornaam of voorletters niet worden genoemd (bijvoorbeeld de heer Van der Meulen).

Translation (using Google translator)
Prefixes in the Netherlands are not capitalized (as in Jan van der Meulen, which "van der" is written in lower case) unless the first name or initials are not mentioned (for example, Mr. Van der Meulen).

Paul
 Last edited: by paulb_99
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorapltm
Registered: May 11, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting Taro:
Quote:
In short:
- Someone enter Van 't in the last name field: I accept it without question as that is the general rule
- Someone enter Van 't in the middle name field: I would ask proof as it deviates from the general rule

This is how I treat all articles that I am aware of.  This particular one, probably because I don't see very many Dutch actors, I wasn't sure of.  Now that I am, I will vote accordingly.  I do have one other question...most articles I am familiar with are all lowercase, is it the same here or is the the 'V', in Van't, uppercase?


It depends mostly where the person is from.
In The Netherlands, the v is usually lowercase, whereas in Belgium, the v is usually uppercase.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
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Registered: August 23, 2008
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I'm glad Martian started this thread. I'm getting educated here. 
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I do have one other question...most articles I am familiar with are all lowercase, is it the same here or is the the 'V', in Van't, uppercase?

Articles in Dutch names are always lowercase. Well-known example: Jan de Bont.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting VirusPil:
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
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... but he is CHANGING data.

Just for my information:
If it would be entered as Brian//van't Hul and someone would change to Brian/van't/Hul without documentation, also a No-vote from you? Or would this be a change into your thinking direction, so a Yes?

Sorry, in some point I can understand your POV, but not how you won't change after reading this thread.

Perhaps the change was undocumented, but now we should know that this would be a correct change.

Virus:

This thread has nothing to do with it, unless the Contributor modifies his notes to reference this thread, which he has not done as far as I know right now. The data remains undocumented. And apparently removed.
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 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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Quoting bbbbb:
Quote:
For #024543509875 (the lone no voter wasn't TheMadMartian) already got approved:

Next in line #5039036036870 is more interesting, because it is in status Reviewing ('Reviewing' indicates the contribution is in queue to be reviewed by a second level reviewer).

Some may remember, John Davis' birthyear didn't have to do anything with the changes I tried to contribute.

Invelos writes:

--x--
These birth years have not yet been determined as necessary and should not be submitted unless they are required to distinguish between two otherwise identical cast or crew. Submit these only if you have included specific information about both actors. If you're not sure, just leave these unchecked and submit your contribution.

[ ] John Davis (1953)
--x--

I was not sure, so I left it unchecked and submitted my contribution.

I received three no votes: John Davis' birthyear is needed.

Still not sure, in favor of the users but against Invelos' instruction, I checked it the second time and submitted my contribution.

Don't brag about getting a Contribution approved with such LOUSY notes. No documentation AT ALL.
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTaro
Registered: February 23, 2009
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting Taro:
Quote:
In short:
- Someone enter Van 't in the last name field: I accept it without question as that is the general rule
- Someone enter Van 't in the middle name field: I would ask proof as it deviates from the general rule

This is how I treat all articles that I am aware of.  This particular one, probably because I don't see very many Dutch actors, I wasn't sure of.  Now that I am, I will vote accordingly.  I do have one other question...most articles I am familiar with are all lowercase, is it the same here or is the the 'V', in Van't, uppercase?

It really depends on case by case. Unfortunately, there is no general rule except I'll add this, but I think it's only valid for Belgian names:
- in general, people descending from regular folk will have a capital 'V'
- in general, people descending from royalty, knights etc, will have a small 'v'

I've seen people in the business world I work in getting pretty uptight about typing their name correctly with a capital or small 'v'. Especially people whose name has a small 'v' (descending from royalty) get very upset when not spelled correctly.

However, even here there's no general rule as, at least in Belgium, many names were written in town registers by French speaking people, who had no notion of these rules and at times made clerical errors.

So, historically this became rather messy and today it's impossible to distill a general rule, unfortunately. It's really something that would have to be documented on a case by case, for example by linking to an actor's CV.

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Don't brag about getting a Contribution approved with such LOUSY notes. No documentation AT ALL.

Well, at least now we know for future contributions: no documentation needed if in the last name field, as it follows the general rule and documentation required when deviating from it. I think that'll leave the least hassle for all parties concerned
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 Last edited: by Taro
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting bbbbb:
Quote:
Next in line #5039036036870 is more interesting, because it is in status Reviewing ('Reviewing' indicates the contribution is in queue to be reviewed by a second level reviewer).

Some may remember, John Davis' birthyear didn't have to do anything with the changes I tried to contribute.

Invelos writes:

--x--
These birth years have not yet been determined as necessary and should not be submitted unless they are required to distinguish between two otherwise identical cast or crew. Submit these only if you have included specific information about both actors. If you're not sure, just leave these unchecked and submit your contribution.

[ ] John Davis (1953)
--x--

I was not sure, so I left it unchecked and submitted my contribution.

I received three no votes: John Davis' birthyear is needed.

Still not sure, in favor of the users but against Invelos' instruction, I checked it the second time and submitted my contribution.

You've hit upon an awkward situation with contributing birth years. If you tick the box you have to prove the BY is required even when it is already on the online profile. If you don't tick the box then the BY is removed from the online even if it is needed.
I wish there were a third option where you could just leave the BYs as is, without changing any of them.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
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Quoting Taro:
Quote:
Well, at least now we know for future contributions: no documentation needed if in the last name field, as it follows the general rule and documentation required when deviating from it. I think that'll leave the least hassle for all parties concerned

That's how I see it as well. As far as I'm concerned the user is changing a profile that currently violates the rules into one that conforms with the rules. If I were unfamiliar with the article in question, a quick internet search would have satisfied my curiosity.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbbbbb
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Don't brag about getting a Contribution approved with such LOUSY notes. No documentation AT ALL.

It wasn't the same without you here.
Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect]
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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I am still wondering by the way, why despite Ken's comments what the pre-occupation is with "correct" names. Are you people using DVDProfiler for Genealogical tracking, or sending out Christmas cards. What possible difference could it bring to the program, except for those who will simply apply a default to unknown names waiting for some user to provide proper documentation, which was NOT done in this case. I though this was a TEAM effort, not everyone of doing whatever they choose and other users be damned.
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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bbbbb:

I am not asking for much here, in fact ALL you needed to do was EDIT your notes to show the documentation, yet you didn't care enough to do so. <shrugs> I don't understand, but just keep on doing your own thing.
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTaro
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Are you people using DVDProfiler for Genealogical tracking, or sending out Christmas cards.
We've sent a Christmas card to Nakama Yukie (Japanese actress), but she never replied 
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
I am still wondering by the way, why despite Ken's comments what the pre-occupation is with "correct" names. Are you people using DVDProfiler for Genealogical tracking, or sending out Christmas cards. What possible difference could it bring to the program, except for those who will simply apply a default to unknown names waiting for some user to provide proper documentation, which was NOT done in this case. I though this was a TEAM effort, not everyone of doing whatever they choose and other users be damned.

The rules tell me that articles "are entered in the appropriate name field along with the name that they precede," so, speaking for myself, that is what I am going to do.  I have seen many of these kinds of changes, and have made a few myself, but because they were common articles...at least common here in the US...no documentation was ever provided nor asked for.  I wasn't familiar with this one, so asked for further information.

While documentation would have been nice, I am sure that bbbbb, being familiar with the article, thought it was a no brainer...just as I believe 'de la' is a no brainer.  I honestly don't see the big deal here.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
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