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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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German Name Help (Honorific) |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 865 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:
If i saw Baron Philipp von Boeselager i'd use the Honorific rule, ...
Sorry, for asking, but why?
Baron Philipp von Boeselager and Philipp Baron von Boeselager are the same. No nobilities or honorifics, all names.
Either using everytime the honorific rule or never. The way i see it, when i see Baron Philipp i'd think it's a title (could also be president Philipp, Mayor Philipp etc.) when i see it in the middle i'd just presume it to be part of the name (like Shasha Baron Cohen. The simpler the better i think. I wouldn't parse Baron /Philipp /von Boeselager, and if i presume it's Baron Philipp// von Boeselager than Baron seems a honorific to me. Philipp Baron von Boeselager just appears to me to be a name, so Philipp/ Baron/ von Boeselager, or with the proper documentation Philipp //Baron von Boeselager Paul |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | As some users stated before, since 1919 all nobilities in Germany got part of the name, so Baron Philipp von Boeselager is also a name.
Same as Countess Maria von Stauffenberg, ...
Same as Maria Countess of Staufenberg and Philipp Baron von Boeselager.
I understand your POV, (Perhaps it would be mine also without the further information) but we should go in one direction. So no distinguishing because of the point where this nobility part of the name is.
I don't know why in these credits some are written with nobility part of the name at the beginning and some with it in the middle, but this changes nothing.
So treating as name or as honorific is equal for me, but we should do it in a consistent way. | | | | Last edited: by VirusPil |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 865 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
As some users stated before, since 1919 all nobilities in Germany got part of the name, so Baron Philipp von Boeselager is also a name.
Same as Countess Maria von Stauffenberg, ...
Same as Maria Countess of Staufenberg and Philipp Baron von Boeselager.
I understand your POV, (Perhaps it would be mine also without the further information) but we should go in one direction. So no distinguishing because of the point where this nobility part of the name is.
I don't know why in these credits some are written with nobility part of the name at the beginning and some with it in the middle, but this changes nothing.
So treating as name or as honorific is equal for me, but we should do it in a consistent way. I understand, and with the clarification in this thread i agree, i was just pointing out how i'd, without any extra info, would parse it had this come up in a profile i was editing. And again, is it to soon to plead for a single name field? Paul |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting paulb_99: Quote:
And again, is it to soon to plead for a single name field?
With no more sorting by family name ? No thanks ... | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: May 9, 2007 | | Posts: 1,536 |
| | Posted: | | | | So we need a single name field, and a sort name, just like for the movie title. Also an original name, when Grafin has been translated to Countess. And let's not forget the Credited As.
Suddenly the single name is not so single any more. | | | | Hans |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Staid S Barr: Quote:
So we need a single name field, and a sort name... If you have the information for the sort name, you do not need a single name field, as parsing must have been solved. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:
And again, is it to soon to plead for a single name field?
With no more sorting by family name ? No thanks ... Agreed  | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Muckl: Quote:
As you can also see on VirusPil's linked page, the surname of the female family members is "Baronin von Boeselager". Kind of wierd to have two differenet surnames in one family, but that seems to be just the way it is... Since gender indicating surnames are unknown within the German naming conventions (other than in many Slavic countries for example), this "Baronin" clearly indicates that, no matter what the legal background may be, the Baron is still treated as title. This thesis is strongly supported by the fact that the younger generations don't use it yet. It's simply handed down to the next generation when the predecessors die. And once more this whole discussion does only apply for German ex-nobility (possibly for the French too, but I'm not sure here). What you are trying to achieve is that, due to German naming laws, we'd have to apply special rules for German ex-nobs (Title is part of surname), while for the nobs of the rest of the world you'd want to apply the default rule (Title = Title). Sorry, for me this doesn't sound like a goal that we should strive for. Especially not if you take into consideration that in the "common usage" the titles are exactly what they used to be: Titles! | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: May 9, 2007 | | Posts: 1,536 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Staid S Barr:
Quote:
So we need a single name field, and a sort name...
If you have the information for the sort name, you do not need a single name field, as parsing must have been solved. Sorting can be local, and you do it any which way you want. | | | | Hans |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 865 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:
And again, is it to soon to plead for a single name field?
With no more sorting by family name ? No thanks ... I just don't understand the need for sorting cast members (or crew for that matter). If you edit a profile you just type what you need (and you'll find him/her) or you add this person. If you already are at a profile you just click the cast member you want to know about and no sorting is needed either. Why do you need to have all your cast sorted by last/family name, i don't understand, do you really alphabetize them and look through? On top of that there could be a local only sorting field for those who need it, Paul |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Silence_of_Lambs: Quote:
Quoting Muckl:
Quote:
As you can also see on VirusPil's linked page, the surname of the female family members is "Baronin von Boeselager". Kind of wierd to have two differenet surnames in one family, but that seems to be just the way it is...
Since gender indicating surnames are unknown within the German naming conventions (other than in many Slavic countries for example), this "Baronin" clearly indicates that, no matter what the legal background may be, the Baron is still treated as title. This thesis is strongly supported by the fact that the younger generations don't use it yet. It's simply handed down to the next generation when the predecessors die.
And once more this whole discussion does only apply for German ex-nobility (possibly for the French too, but I'm not sure here).
What you are trying to achieve is that, due to German naming laws, we'd have to apply special rules for German ex-nobs (Title is part of surname), while for the nobs of the rest of the world you'd want to apply the default rule (Title = Title).
Sorry, for me this doesn't sound like a goal that we should strive for.
Especially not if you take into consideration that in the "common usage" the titles are exactly what they used to be: Titles! I agree. (Explained before) Another point why a special rule for German names wouldn't be good is getting too fast assumptions in other similar names. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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