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Discussion is fine. But you weren't discussing, You were spinning support of bad data being entered into the system, by claiming grayness and so forth, as is typical.

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Ultimately we are left with the rules, James, if just once I saw you say something like I am sorry, while i might agree with you relative Technical Effects, they currently are NOT allowed by the Rules, just once, James. But you don't and you didn't.

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You launched into this dissertation discussing the grayness of the rules and even said "Rather than snap and immediately delete the information that some obviously want". Why not simply say the data is against the rules currently and should NOT have been Contributed until and if such time as the Rules permit it.

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It goes without saying that some people want this data. Some people probably want Key Grips, but you have absolutely no problem saying NO to that...why because i suspect that YOU have no interest and don't care that somebody else might.

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Like i said, I am simply about the rules and what they say at any given moment and i don't spin them, I don't parse them (because even that can cause trouble), the Rules say what they say and they are what they are. If a particular piece of data is OK within the Rules fine, if not then it should NOT be accepted, no matter what, or if erroneously accepted it should be REMOVED, until the Rules change.

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Discussions don't change the Rules, Rick. Your flippant responses are insulting. Only ken changes the Rules and you obviouskly have missed the entire point of it, or ignored it so you could make tyouer insulting post.

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As I have told you numerous, James, this is very simple, just follow the Rules.

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The community has questions and requests input on issues. In order to gain an understanding and see what others think they bring these issues to the forums.

It is only after looking at all aspects of an issue and getting input from many people should the topic of rules be brought up.

No one is advocating violating the rules but to bring them up too early in the process will only inhibit people from contributing their ideas.

So, I would like to encourage the community to continue to discuss these types of issues. I am interested in making the database better and it might be that the rules will need to be updated or changed.

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What I am asking is how does everyone here interpret the following rule-->

For each category, include only those people credited with the roles listed in the "Role" and "Credited As" columns. If someone is not credited with one of these roles (or direct translations of these roles), do not include them in the Crew section

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Quoting Kathy:

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The community has questions and requests input on issues. In order to gain an understanding and see what others think they bring these issues to the forums.

It is only after looking at all aspects of an issue and getting input from many people should the topic of rules be brought up.

No one is advocating violating the rules but to bring them up too early in the process will only inhibit people from contributing their ideas.

So, I would like to encourage the community to continue to discuss these types of issues. I am interested in making the database better and it might be that the rules will need to be updated or changed.

I don't disagree with you but, by the same token, if someone asks for a carification on the rules, that question should be answered.  The person asking the question shouldn't have to wade through page after page of discussion looking for an answer.

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If, after getting the answer to their question, they want further discussion, it can and should be had.

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This is the contribution forum.  When I see these types of questions/polls I automatically interpret them to be asking if the issue at question is allowable under the current Rules.  If that is not the intent, then the discussion should be moved to the Rules forum for discussion.

We keep having these same conversations over and over about different variations of crew credits.  The Rules are clear that if the role name is not listed in the crew table, they are not to be contributed.

This does not prevent people from tracking the roles that they are interested in; that's what "Other" is for.

If we want to make changes to the Crew Table in the Rules, those discussions need to be conducted in the "Contribution Rules Committee" forum.  Once some level of consensus is reached, then we need to put the pressure on Ken to make a final decision, communicate that to the community, and update the Rules (or not) accordingly.

In the meantime, arguing and debating every variation of a crew role name in this forum is just a waste of time and does nothing but produce the potential for another thread that can devolve into mud-slinging.

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Just to add my five penneth....

I think there are degrees to which we have to use our common sense.

If the credit of a film were:
Supervising Art Director
Senior Art Director
Art Director
Art Director

I would include all four entries as they are all art directors.

But I wouldn't include anyone under Technical Effects just because I happen to know what the current equivalent of that roles is (and, much like Skip is supposedly doing I would remove them from a profile if I saw them).

Ideally Ken (or whomever) should update the crew table to include all acceptable entries, as with the Make-up section:
Chief Makeup Artist,
Department Head, Make-Up Artist,
Head Make-Up Artist,
Key Make-Up,
Key Make-Up Artist,
Key Makeup Artist & Hairstylist,
Lead Makeup Artist,
Make-up,
Makeup and Hair Designer,
Makeup Artist,
Make-Up Designer,
Makeup Artist & Hair to [Cast Name],
Makeup for [Cast Name]


But, it really doesn't take much common sense to know whether to include a crew member in your profile based on the current crew list. I was forever saying that Supervising Producers should be included and was tracking them locally....now they ARE acceptable per the rules...subsequently other people have a load of work to do tracking them and I don't; simply because I used my little grey cells and decided to track them.

I go with the Not Acceptable column a lot more - No Co-Anything or Additional entries. So I wouldn't include a Co-Art Director even though the 'don't include Co-Anything' rule doesn't actually cover the art section. I just use my common sense.