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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What determines your vote? The data or the notes? |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hal:
1) I don't know about you but sometimes it can take sveral months for me to get around to a given contribution, so yes those notes and their quality or lack thereof are a VERY big factor.
2) You said correct data, you said nothing about verified data, now if I were to pretend like others do, I would say that correct and verified data go hand in hand and therefore the verification spource is not needed, but that simply is not true.
3) It has little to do with meeting my standards, the ERules say to provide a verification source, nopt simply throw it up on the wall and see if it sticks. If the notes do not conform to the Rules, then there is no way any Yes can conform to the rules, what you (the voter) know or don't know about the data is not at issue, what is at issue whether the CONTRIBUTOR fconformed to the Rules or not and not providing a verification source does not conform to the Rules.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have a bsis for the information, midnit. Could the user have lied or made an honest mistake...yes to both. If either of those is true it will be found out soon enough. Do I think that Ken gives the screeners too much latitude...absolutely I do. I am not a believer in good enough is OK, it either conforms to the Rules or it does not. Tust me I have discovered typos of my own, or had someone discover one and correct and that ejmbarasses me because I try to get it right so it doesn't have to be FIXED by someone else, but I am himan and I do make mistales. But providing inadequate notes will never be one of those mistakes. Like I said starting from the very beginning of the Rules and all the way through we talk about providing verification sources, even on the Contribution Notes page it is talked about and in that quote there is no exception to anything, emphasis is placed on Cast and Crew but there are NO exceptions. " For changes to existing profiles, enter a brief description of the changes you've made. For all contributions, indicate the source of the data, especially cast and crew additions." There is not a SINGLE exception to providing sources. NOT ONE. And it is that way throughout the Rules, anyone who believes there is...well...then I want whatever it is you are smoking.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
.... what you (the voter) know or don't know about the data is not at issue, what is at issue whether the CONTRIBUTOR fconformed to the Rules or not and not providing a verification source does not conform to the Rules.
Skip Apparently, for you. For me, whether the data is correct or not is what is at issue. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well, you got it half-right. Too bad the Rules don't back you up. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
When I audit a title, and my data doesn't match what is in the current profile, I double-check my data, insure I have sufficient supporting documentation and submit it. If I cannot find appropriate support for my data, I don't submit it. I don't really care if the original contribution was intended or not. If it's wrong, and I can prove it, I fix it. I already assume my data is correct, otherwise I wouldn't be changing it. If it doesn't match the curent profile, I want to know why. Nobody's perfect, myself included, and it is possible that the original contributor found something that I didn't. I honestly don't understand the 'I don't really care' attitude.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,293 |
| | Posted: | | | | If I know the data is correct I would Yes vote but probably make it clear in my Vote Notes that the data is not supported by contribution notes and those who are unsure may legitimately vote No. | | | | It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
I honestly don't understand the 'I don't really care' attitude. It's pretty simple. If the data is wrong, and I have proof that it's wrong, then I do not care why it is wrong. All I care about is fixing it. What's not to understand? | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | For me it would be the data that matters. I'm not too strict about documentation either, so if the sources and the data are correct I would always vote "Yes".
But we have a "specialist" here in Germany who's "contribution notes" solely consist of the phrase "Hompage" and seldom improve the existing data, that's when I give a "NO" | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
|  | Dan W | | Registered: May 9, 2002 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 980 |
| | Posted: | | | | The thing that is clearly being overlooked here is (by at least 60 of you) the rules clearly state that you must document your changes. The rules make no distinction on whether your changes are correct or not. So, if you vote "yes" and the contribution is declined due to contribution rules violation, you have voted "yes" to a declined contribution.
Ken has clearly stated that our votes are automatically "weighted" by accuracy. I take this to mean that, if I vote "yes" to a declined contribution, my future vote means less than those who voted "no" to the same contribution.
EDIT: Of course, the opposite is also true
I say, vote the way you like, folks. You do it at your own detriment. | | | | Dan | | | | Last edited: by Dan W |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dan W: Quote:
I say, vote the way you like, folks. I agree. If Invelos declines correct data in favor of correct contribution notes, that would be counter-productive, IMHO. Am I really worried about my "voting reputation"? I don't think so. If Invelos wants to "ding" me for voting for correct data....so be it. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 28, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,299 |
| | Posted: | | | | I wholeheartedly support striving for informative contribution notes. At the same time, I also wholeheartedly support striving for accurate data. A perfect contribution has both.
If I know for a fact that a contribution has accurate data then I will vote yes, regardless of the state of the contribution notes.
If I suspect or know the contribution to be inaccurate, and the notes do nothing to sway me, I will vote no.
In the end, voting no on data you know to be correct is counter productive of the main goal: to have an accurate database. Well documented data is simply a very desireable secondary goal, but it is still secondary.
KM | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS!
Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles.
You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. | | | | Last edited: by Astrakan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Valid points, Astra. But i follow the Rules and as such, since the Rules do spell out verificfation sources numerous times, I view any Contribution as a picture. If the Contribution Notes are not properly sourced, then the picture is incomplete and will be voted No.
You state "I wholeheartedly support striving for informative contribution notes." as well as accurate data. The only way this can be achieved is if we demand it. I demad that the Rules be followed and that you (generic) provide accurate and communicative notes which are properly sourced and that the data be accurate as well. If you cannot be bothered to comply with what the rules ask, then do not expect me to vote yes, it will not happen. Notes and data are the sum total of any Contribution. I will not back down and I will continue demanding sourced notes and data. To do less, endangers the quality of the database. I will also continue, when i choose to Contribute, to lead by example.
As I said elsewhere, Ted Turner said it best; Lead, Follow or GET OUT OF THE WAY! I will not FOLLOW those who support improperly sourced notes and consequently bad Contributions.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,022 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
Valid points, Astra. But i follow the Rules and as such, since the Rules do spell out verificfation sources numerous times, I view any Contribution as a picture. If the Contribution Notes are not properly sourced, then the picture is incomplete and will be voted No.
You state "I wholeheartedly support striving for informative contribution notes." as well as accurate data. The only way this can be achieved is if we demand it. I demad that the Rules be followed and that you (generic) provide accurate and communicative notes which are properly sourced and that the data be accurate as well. If you cannot be bothered to comply with what the rules ask, then do not expect me to vote yes, it will not happen. Notes and data are the sum total of any Contribution. I will not back down and I will continue demanding sourced notes and data. To do less, endangers the quality of the database. I will also continue, when i choose to Contribute, to lead by example.
As I said elsewhere, Ted Turner said it best; Lead, Follow or GET OUT OF THE WAY! I will not FOLLOW those who support improperly sourced notes and consequently bad Contributions.
Skip I think you've said this enough now, we know which side of the fence you are on. It would be great if a lot more of the people who voted on the poll (80+) gave their opinions also. I am undecided.  | | |  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,491 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Astrakan: Quote:
This thread is inspired by another one in which a few users are debating whether poor contribution notes alone are sufficient reason to vote "no" on a contribution.
I know what my opinion is and I know what those posting in that thread think, but I'm curious what the general concensus is. Hence this thread. 
So, to vote in the poll, consider the following scenario:
A user submits a change to a profile with poor contribution notes. You yourself happen to know that the change is correct, but based on the notes alone a person couldn't possibly tell whether the information is accurate or not.
What do you do? Answer the poll accordingly, please.
Yes, I know the scenario and the options are somewhat narrow in scope. But I'm trying to get to the heart of this debate: is good data all that matters, or are good notes for posterity's sake just as important?
KM Just stumbled across this poll this morning and I can't figure out how to vote: Yes- to the notes? / Yes to the Data?/ No to the Notes? / No to the data?? ?  Not worded very well .. So Neutral for me..  But in all fairness- what I'd really do is: (which isn't even listed in your options).,,: is I'd check the percentage and amount of votes.. If I find (i.e.) 34 Yes votes ( 100% )..,, and the information 'appears' to be accurate.., That's good enough for me. If I find even One No vote,, I'll do a quick 'on line' to check to see if inaccurate.. If I find more than one No vote and the percentage is 'very low' ( i.e. 50/50 )., I'd go and find.,, and dig out the DVD in question and check it first hand.. If it is a disc that is only in my wish list and I can't verify certain information it would be a Neutral.. UNLESS there is ( like I say ) 100 % Yes and well over 20 votes .. I'll vote Yes .. | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry | | | | Last edited: by widescreenforever |
| | Registered: March 28, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,299 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting widescreenforever: Quote:
Just stumbled across this poll this morning and I can't figure out how to vote... Read the scenario (just under the bolded part) and then vote in the poll how you would vote on that contribution. Quote:
But in all fairness- what I'd really do is: (which isn't even listed in your options... That's because this poll doesn't try to answer what people's voting habits are. See the last paragraph in my first post for more on this. KM | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS!
Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles.
You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. | | | | Last edited: by Astrakan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting richierich: Quote:
It would be great if a lot more of the people who voted on the poll (80+) gave their opinions also. Yes, it would. Some interesting statistics: Current Poll Votes YES 65 76% NO 14 16% NEUTRAL 6 7% Total 85 Unique Posters (my subjective analysis of where they stand on the issue) YES 15 71% NO 4 19% NEUTRAL 1 5% Undecided 1 5% Total 21 Posts (total number of posts by users in each category from above) YES 27 57% NO 18 38% NEUTRAL 1 2% Undecided 1 2% Total 47 I used goodguy's post count by user script. Works nicely! | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan | | | | Last edited: by m.cellophane |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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