Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next
Parsing of Mary Jean McAdams
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting reybr:
Quote:
But with the middle name we gain absolutely nothing

If it was me to decide I would kick the middle name field out ot the program, but that would be a lack of respect to the people who use it. Just like it's a lack of respect for anybody's name to be used the wrong way.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
 Last edited: by Daddy DVD
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
If we weren't supposed to parse names correctly, why bother having three fields called first, middle and last?
If we're not supposed to be accurate in terms of how a person's name is meant to be written why not just have two fields or just one?
If we have fields that take first, middle and last names it seems only right and respectful that we fill them in correctly.
 Last edited: by northbloke
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
If we weren't supposed to parse names correctly, why bother having three fields called first, middle and last?
If we're not supposed to be accurate in terms of how a person's name is meant to be written why not just have two fields or just one?
If we have fields that take first, middle and last names it seems only right and respectful that we fill them in correctly.

I said the same thing in my previous two posts, but I think it won't hurt to repeat it.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet:
Quote:
We gain as much as with parsing Helena Bonham Carter as "Helena//Bonham Carter". I personally think if we want to be correct in all sort of things concerning the DVD, we also need to be correct about parsing people's names right. It's just a matter of documentation like a lot of things to help others understand. If we just want to split everything up and use a space as a separator, we need a lot more like the three name fields we have now.


I disagree that these examples are the same.

Last names are important for searching and sorting.  First names aren't.
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 1,807
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
If we weren't supposed to parse names correctly, why bother having three fields called first, middle and last?


North, you hit the nail on the head.
I understand that determining the correct parsing can be a PITA! (and oftentimes there is now way to be 100 percent sure), but that's what we are required of by the Program, which asks for "First Name", "Middle Name" and "Last Name" (not necessarily all of them, though, and allowing to enter compound names, either with a hyphen or without).
Since the content of those fields is not defined in DVDP, afaik, I gather we use their common definition in common language, but the definition of what a name is is primarily a cultural issue that varies with cultures.

Quote:
If we're not supposed to be accurate in terms of how a person's name is meant to be written why not just have two fields or just one?
If we have fields that take first, middle and last names it seems only right and respectful that we fill them in correctly.


Indeed. If correct parsing appears to someone as an unnecessary complication, here is an easy way to avoid it: just enter any family name in the Last Name field and any given name in the First Name field. Never use the Middle Name field, since that would require to determine whether it's actually a Middle Name and that's not easy and would not affect the alphabetical order anyway, so why bother?   

Quoting hal9g:
Quote:

Last names are important for searching and sorting. 


True.

Quote:
First names aren't.


Neither Middle names. 


Quoting Skip:
Quote:
Sometimes the attitudes I see on display here about things such as this almost sound to me like some of us are personally offended or have some odd sort of personal involvement.


I rather see desire for accuracy. Of course, a correct parsing is also more respectful towards the people we enter and their cultures.
No way to be "neutral": if you stick with the US current standard and want to apply it to names that more likely belong with other cultures, such as traditional double-barreled first names from the Southern US, that doesn't sound as very "neutral" to me.
-- Enry
 Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting jmbox:
Quote:

Sure, if someone wants to find proof that someone's name is X not Y, and wants to change 30, 100, 1000 profiles to do it; they can download those profiles and change them all.

All I care about is that if I click on someone, it tells me every movie they are in in my collection and has the correct name as in the credits for that movie. The "common name" could be 12345678 and it would still work as long as "credited as" was correct.

Some of us seem to be hellbent on a whole lot of effort for very little gain.


You are correct, the 'common name' could be anything.  But who decides what that name is?  You want '123'.  Someone else comes along and decides he wants '321'.  Someone else comes along and decides it should be '213'.  There has to be a standard that EVERYONE can use...not just what the small percentage, that visit these forums, decides it should be.

Ken has given us that standard...the most commonly credited form of the name.  It is unfortunate that the db got mucked up with the mass upload a few months ago, but that doesn't mean we should make it worse by creating arbitrary standards that 95% of the user base will never see.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 1,807
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting jmbox:
Quote:

All I care about is that if I click on someone, it tells me every movie they are in in my collection and has the correct name as in the credits for that movie. The "common name" could be 12345678 and it would still work as long as "credited as" was correct.


You might be right on that. 
Let's be practical: the Common Name serves just that purpose, to "tell me every movie they are in my collection".
-- Enry
 Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
.... but that doesn't mean we should make it worse by creating arbitrary standards that 95% of the user base will never see.


If they were incorporated into the Rules and everyone was forced to read them before contributing as was once the case, then everyone who codntributes would know exactly what they are.
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 1,807
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
.... but that doesn't mean we should make it worse by creating arbitrary standards that 95% of the user base will never see.


If they were incorporated into the Rules and everyone was forced to read them before contributing as was once the case, then everyone who codntributes would know exactly what they are.


Agree. Besides, that 95% of the user base wouldn't know how to determine a Common Name, unless they read the Rules and Invelos forums. 
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,394
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
Agree. Besides, that 95% of the user base wouldn't know how to determine a Common Name, unless they read the Rules and Invelos forums. 

Everything said about what 95% of the user base wouldn't know leads me to believe that the most simple way to parse ANY name like Mary Jean McAdams IS Mary / Jean / McAdams.  It's easy to look at a name like that and put the slash into the space between names.  Right or wrong as viewed by Ms McAdams, at least the M/J/M can be understood by everyone -- or at least should be.  And for linking purposes it works quite well.

Where this concept breaks down is (1) with double last names (Eric von Stroheim, for example), (2) double first names (Billy Bob Thornton) and (3) people with more than 3 elements in his/her name (can't think of an example at the present).  For all other names it's the easiest to put one name in each space FIRST: Mary, MIDDLE: Jean, LAST: McAdams.  Perhaps not correct, but at least consistent.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
.... but that doesn't mean we should make it worse by creating arbitrary standards that 95% of the user base will never see.


If they were incorporated into the Rules and everyone was forced to read them before contributing as was once the case, then everyone who codntributes would know exactly what they are.


True enough, but Ken has already stated what the standard is supposed to be...the most credited form of the actors name.  To me, that is the easiest standard to use as it is based on a verifiable source rather than arbitrary standards.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
Where this concept breaks down is (1) with double last names (Eric von Stroheim, for example), (2) double first names (Billy Bob Thornton)...

Mary Jean is a "double first name" too.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantlmoelleb
Beer Profiler now!
Registered: March 14, 2007
Denmark Posts: 630
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet:
Quote:
Quoting reybr:
Quote:
But with the middle name we gain absolutely nothing

If it was me to decide I would kick the middle name field out ot the program, but that would be a lack of respect to the people who use it. Just like it's a lack of respect for anybody's name to be used the wrong way.


I doubt anyone would consider it lack of respect to have a single field for fornames/middle names.
Regards
Lars
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting lmoelleb:
Quote:
I doubt anyone would consider it lack of respect to have a single field for fornames/middle names.

The middle name is part of the American culture, so not wanting a separate field for middle names would be disrepectful.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
 Last edited: by Daddy DVD
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Registered: May 1, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 6,745
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet:
Quote:
The middle name is part of the American culture, so not wanting a separate field for middle names would be disrepectful.

I can't see where this respect is granted when it comes to eastern names such as Chow Yun-Fat, where Chow is declared "first name".
Karsten
DVD Collectors Online

DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantlmoelleb
Beer Profiler now!
Registered: March 14, 2007
Denmark Posts: 630
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet:
Quote:
Quoting lmoelleb:
Quote:
I doubt anyone would consider it lack of respect to have a single field for fornames/middle names.

The middle name is part of the American culture, so not wanting a separate field for middle names would be disrepectful.

I know it is part of American culture, but I disagree it would be disrespectful to have them entered into the same field - just like I would not consider it disrespectful to me having me entering both my first and last name into a single field  for the "Full name".
Regards
Lars
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next