But it's just that, hal, a guess. That is not even something i will attempt in a population the size of ours, I would be shocked if there are not at least a few who do want Full credits, I would not expect it to be something that would appeal to most of us, not even me (what appeals to me is WSIWYT, NO ARGUMENTS, THAT APPEALS TO ME), nor i suspect would the users that would be "interested"  to be anything but rather selective in what titles might grab their interest . But ZERO, no that's crazy.

Skip

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
BTW Martian, just because it's a public forum and you CAN break into whatever discussion you wish; does not mean you should, Does the term busy body have any meaning for you< I presume that you can parse it and grok it in its fullness.

Skip

Pot, meet kettle!

Quoting VirusPil:

Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

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... But it couldn't be any easier, WSIWYT in every case, no debate, no discussion, no fights, no "Should i enter this" threads (repetitively). ...

I know with this opinion I could get anger of some users, but if we would just strictly follow the rules regarding crew, we wouldn't have so much discussions in the forum. Perhaps we would miss some credits that we all (or most) agree that should be added, but discussions would be less.

... And what should we do the whole day, without these discussions.   

Exactly so.  If this Rule were followed without exception:

Quoting the Rules:

Quote:
If someone is not credited with one of these roles (or direct translations of these roles), do not include them in the Crew section

AND Ken would make a few additions/changes to the crew table, we could end the vast majority of the discussions about "Can I add this to the crew section?" and eliminate the "shoehorning" altogether.  The userbase, however, simply does not seem to have the stomach for this approach, unfortunately! 

Hal:

I don't care if they have the stomach for it, oce it's done then if don't want to follow it your contributuions won't be acceprted PERIOD, no exceptions. They'll get the stomach for it REAL QUICK. That includes a lot of things, including the infamous $.01 MSRP change that was accepted AGAINST the Rules. Once ken allows the screeneres to ignore the Rules then we have no Rules, which is just about where we are at right now. We have a user right now making several Contributions, that while I personally agree with him, what he wants to do is his call and it's not part of the Rules and Ken should instruct the screeners to decline it, but I will wager that they will be accepted, his data is NOT currently part of the crew table and is therefor not allowed. The same thing happened some months ago with Special Photographic Effects which were and still are not in the Rules but they have repeatedly been allowed, so the Rules are meaningless,. That is Ken's doing or the screeners and he needs to tighten it up. The Rules exist and are followed or we have no Rules in effect.<shrugs>

Quoting m.cellophane:

Quote:
northbloke was kind enough to share his work with me. He spent 3 hours tracking one minute of film credits from Casino Royale. There was an additional minute of film credits remaining when he gave up.

After he was done, he restored to his original version and ran database repair. That action removed 388 unused names from his local database as a result of this one (half) "full open credits" profile. He also reports that the size difference of the dpb file increased 5% with the addition of the half full open credits and the estimate would therefore be that the full open credits version would be 10% larger than the standard version.

I'm going to paste the crew from Casino Royale in 3 different versions for you to compare:

Official Invelos version

My personal version (all custom as-credited titles for official Invelos roles plus a few thrown in based on my preferences [set decorator, casting, etc]) which is sort of Option 3 in this poll if it were contributable (which I haven't updated with art house dividers yet)(and it doesn't appear that I was tracking all of the "by" words (eg. Directed by) at the time I did this one...well, you'll get the idea)

northbloke's (half) full open credits version 

Enjoy.

And many thanks again to northbloke for doing the work to check this out and allowing me to share it.   

Sweet baby jesus!!!

Thanks for the comparison guys! Props to both of you for your work.

Not to beat a dead horse (although I’m damn good at that ), but as I’ve said before... something like this? It would absolutely cause me to stop contributing. And as I see from other posters such as Pantheon, Darklynoon and the Martian, I’m not alone in this.

My biggest worry is who would pick up the slack that open credits create? My guess (and granted, it is only a guess), is not many. This is just one problem mentioned in this thread that has brought up many other good points about problems open crew would cause.

I’ve started work on another television series now. Last night, it took me three and a half hours to complete a simple three episodes (the way the credits are split up and how slowly they move, are a pain in my butt...). The season I’m working on has 24 episodes in it. With everything else going on in my life, I already felt incredibly guilty about spending that much time on it (and knowing how long it’s going to take me to actually complete the season... ). There’s no way I’d even dream of tackling it if we had open credits

And before anyone says I wouldn’t have to worry about full credits, I have to say, I’m like Pantheon. IF I start something, I have this annoying type A personality which makes me complete that something full on. There’s no way I could do it half way, and not feel like I was only doing a half-a**ed job. I never used to enter wardrobe supervisors because to me, they aren’t costume designers (if they were, why don’t they get an Oscar like the actual costume designers do?). Now, my OCD has totally kicked in, and realizing others track that info, I always enter them. It’s just the way I’m  built. If I do something, I do it completely.

I’m not against contributable custom roles, in the sections we have defined now (I think we cover all the major crew sections nicely), but anything other than that would just be too much for me, and quite a few others apparently.

Quoting Forget_the_Rest:

Quote:
Quoting Merrik:

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Not to beat a dead horse (although I’m damn good at that ), but as I’ve said before... something like this? It would absolutely cause me to stop contributing. And as I see from other posters such as Pantheon, Darklynoon and the Martian, I’m not alone in this.

My biggest worry is who would pick up the slack that open credits create? My guess (and granted, it is only a guess), is not many. This is just one problem mentioned in this thread that has brought up many other good points about problems open crew would cause.

I can't speak for others, but both Addicted (at least I think it was him, too many pages!!) & I have said we'd look at entering Crew Credits.

It's one of those situations where no matter which option, it won't please everyone. For example, right now I don't touch them based on all of the ifs, ands and buts involved. Under an open credits, I'd be more than happy to enter them. Ideally, I'd much prefer the limited open so you wouldn't get the catering staff and the like added.

Then much props to you my friend! You are indeed a better man than I am!    If the system ever went that way, I would hope we'd have a few more people like you and Addicted (I do believe it was him that stated he would give it a shot) around to continuing helping out! 

I do feel there's got to be a happy medium in this mess somewhere, but with 23 pages behind us of everyone not liking some option for some reason or another, I can't seem to think of what it would be! 

Like I said, for myself, I'd be happy with contributable custom roles in the predefined categories we have now. I do think we cover the major categories of crew nicely as it is now. That way however, instead of having everything listed under Visual Effects, we'd be able to contribute "Digital Effects Supervisor" to have it represent that role much more accurately. Or the one role I track locally, Sound Effects Editors.

This would still keep predefined categories, the order would stay the same, the system would still be able to track crew and link them properly etc. etc. I think that would be a good change that would work towards the better of the system, but that could just be me.

Another problem I'm not sure if anyone brought up yet (23 pages is a lot to remember), anyone consider BY's....    They're a pain as it is now. I can't imagine how many we'd have to have with full open credits! Yikes! 

Quoting Merrik:

Quote:
Quoting Forget_the_Rest:

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Quoting Merrik:

Quote:


Not to beat a dead horse (although I’m damn good at that ), but as I’ve said before... something like this? It would absolutely cause me to stop contributing. And as I see from other posters such as Pantheon, Darklynoon and the Martian, I’m not alone in this.

My biggest worry is who would pick up the slack that open credits create? My guess (and granted, it is only a guess), is not many. This is just one problem mentioned in this thread that has brought up many other good points about problems open crew would cause.

I can't speak for others, but both Addicted (at least I think it was him, too many pages!!) & I have said we'd look at entering Crew Credits.

It's one of those situations where no matter which option, it won't please everyone. For example, right now I don't touch them based on all of the ifs, ands and buts involved. Under an open credits, I'd be more than happy to enter them. Ideally, I'd much prefer the limited open so you wouldn't get the catering staff and the like added.

Then much props to you my friend! You are indeed a better man than I am!    If the system ever went that way, I would hope we'd have a few more people like you and Addicted (I do believe it was him that stated he would give it a shot) around to continuing helping out! 

I do feel there's got to be a happy medium in this mess somewhere, but with 23 pages behind us of everyone not liking some option for some reason or another, I can't seem to think of what it would be! 

Like I said, for myself, I'd be happy with contributable custom roles in the predefined categories we have now. I do think we cover the major categories of crew nicely as it is now. That way however, instead of having everything listed under Visual Effects, we'd be able to contribute "Digital Effects Supervisor" to have it represent that role much more accurately. Or the one role I track locally, Sound Effects Editors.

This would still keep predefined categories, the order would stay the same, the system would still be able to track crew and link them properly etc. etc. I think that would be a good change that would work towards the better of the system, but that could just be me.

Another problem I'm not sure if anyone brought up yet (23 pages is a lot to remember), anyone consider BY's....    They're a pain as it is now. I can't imagine how many we'd have to have with full open credits! Yikes! 

 

Quoting Pantheon:

Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
Special Photographic Effects which were and still are not in the Rules

For someone who repeatedly tells people to "read the damn rules" and words to that effect....you really should read the damn rules, Skip.

From the Visual Effects, acceptable entries section of the rules:
Individual Credits:
Visual/Digital/Special/Special Visual Effects, including Designer, Supervisor, and Director,
Special Photographic Effects

You really should check your facts before you rant. 

My bad, but the point remains is that the change was not made until just recently, Neill

The point is that if this is going to be done, then Ken needs to mod the Rules immediately, otherwise the Rules have been eliminated to allow for some new piece of data that has, in this case, for several months been not consistent with the Rules. I have no problem with ken making such allowances as long as the Rules are updated upon the decision and not wait for MONTHS, while we look at illegal data and try to figure out what to do with it.

As we have discussed many times, when ken or the screeners ignore the Rules, it usually will open up the floodgates, but we have no way of knowing whether they intended to or simply made a mistake, this is why when such things happen then Ken needs to mod the Rules or make statement here immediately...so we know what is going on.