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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Right in the first page of the rules... Quote:
These rules apply to all kinds of profiles, but there are two special cases where the rules need clarifications. Where you see the icons shown below, refer to the special instructions at the end of this document. These are titled Movie Box sets and TV Series on DVD.
Box sets containing more than one film
TV Series on DVD
Note: The standard rules do apply for these special cases; the sections clarify specific ways the rules apply to box sets and television series on DVD. Notice the note I put in bold. We still follow the standard rules while making box sets. The box set rules are just clarifications where needed. So yes... standard rules still apply. If it is not covered on the page for box sets then we fall back on the standard rules. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Pete beat me to it. While some of the rules are vague, this isn't one of them. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,774 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting AiAustria: Quote:
It depends on which box set we have:
Real Box sets (without cast/crew) should not have a genre.
Technical box sets (e.g. 3D/BD/DVD combos) contain a complete profile. Therefore they need all information including genre. In my opinion this makes the most sense. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,685 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Pete beat me to it. While some of the rules are vague, this isn't one of them. Well, I beg to differ. It's true that the part of the rules that Pete quoted is not vague. But the same cannot be said about the part that specifically deals with genres. Quote:
Genres are often a matter of personal interpretation, which can differ among users. If your personal preference for Genre differs from the main database, you can store the information you prefer in your local database and lock the Genre field from further updates. Do not make contributions that only change or re-order Genres, unless the existing Genre list is blatantly incorrect.
Custom genres are for local use only and will not be included in the contributed profile. Additionally, although up to five genres may be assigned in your local database, only the top three non-custom genres will be contributed. This does not tell us how to assign genres, just how not to change them. While it may be obvious how to assign genres to individual movies (although not what genres to assign), it is far from obvious how to assign genres to a box set, if at all. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar | | | | Last edited: by GSyren |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting SpaceFreakMicha: Quote:
Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
It depends on which box set we have:
Real Box sets (without cast/crew) should not have a genre.
Technical box sets (e.g. 3D/BD/DVD combos) contain a complete profile. Therefore they need all information including genre.
In my opinion this makes the most sense. Sense is of no interest, as long as we can quarrel about rules.  | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,685 |
| | Posted: | | | | Let us assume that we have a box set with three films. Individually they have the following genres assigned:  What genres do we assign the box set? Well, there are a lot of options. Here are some of them: - Assign only the genre that is common to all three - Horror, even though it's at the third position in all movies. - Assign Horror first since there are three of those, Science Fiction second, Drama or Fantasy third. - Assign Science Fiction first, since two of them have it in first place, Fantasy second, Drama third. But you could also use a weighted scheme where first position has value 3, second has value 2 and third has value 1. This would give us: Science Fiction: 6 points Fantasy: 5 points Drama: 4 points Horror: 3 points So this would leave out Horror altogether even though they are all Horror (as would one of the alternatives above). Or you could just decide that there is no reasonable way to determine genres for this box set and leave them all blank. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar | | | | Last edited: by GSyren |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes... I have always used what is represented the most in the box set. And Yes I definitely prefer that over the blank field. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,685 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Yes... I have always used what is represented the most in the box set. And Yes I definitely prefer that over the blank field. So that would be what in this case? Just Horror? But you'll have to admit that the rules are vague, no? | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
***SNIP THE QUOTED RULES***
This does not tell us how to assign genres, just how not to change them. While it may be obvious how to assign genres to individual movies (although not what genres to assign), it is far from obvious how to assign genres to a box set, if at all. Except we are not talking about how to assign genres, ore even what genres to assign, we are talking about whether or not they should be there. The rules don't tell us how to assign genres to standard profiles, yet we do it. Per the rules, if they can be there for standard profiles, they can be there for box set profiles. And, as I stated earlier in this thread and you just confirmed above, the rules tell us how not to change genres. Again, based on Pete's description of what is happening, what we have here is a change in genres...removing all the genres is a change. The rules state, "Do not make contributions that only change or re-order Genres, unless the existing Genre list is blatantly incorrect." According to Pete's post, the genres in this case are correct and apply to both films in the set, so are not blatantly wrong. Like it or not, the rules are not vague on this point. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting AiAustria: Quote:
Quoting SpaceFreakMicha:
Quote:
Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
It depends on which box set we have:
Real Box sets (without cast/crew) should not have a genre.
Technical box sets (e.g. 3D/BD/DVD combos) contain a complete profile. Therefore they need all information including genre.
In my opinion this makes the most sense.
Sense is of no interest, as long as we can quarrel about rules. If this is the road we want to go down, I have a ton of profiles I can start uploading, that I am currently keeping local because, while they make sense to me, they don't follow the rules.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,685 |
| | Posted: | | | | The OP's question was if box set should have genres, not if existing genres should be removed, and that's what I responded to. Or more specifically the claim that the rules are not vague.
The principle for assigning genres to a single move is simple. Assign the genres that most correspond to the action in the movie. The actual choices may be subjective, but the principle is clear.
The same cannot be said for box sets. That doesn't necessarily mean that they shouldn't have genres. But it would be nice to have some guidelines as to what principle should be used to determine them. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 299 |
| | Posted: | | | | Each of my boxsets include all genres found under their child profiles. What the current or future contribution rules call for in this regard don't matter to me short of when making a contribution naturally. I have no desire for my collection to reflect a mirror image of the online database. As long as downloading a profile initially saves me time that's good enough for me. I'll update it locally as I see fit. You all can knock yourselves out though discussing this. Have fun. | | | | My DVD/Blu-ray Collection |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
Yes... I have always used what is represented the most in the box set. And Yes I definitely prefer that over the blank field.
So that would be what in this case? Just Horror?
But you'll have to admit that the rules are vague, no? No I do not find them vague. They seem pretty straight forward to me. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
The OP's question was if box set should have genres, not if existing genres should be removed, and that's what I responded to. Or more specifically the claim that the rules are not vague.
The principle for assigning genres to a single move is simple. Assign the genres that most correspond to the action in the movie. The actual choices may be subjective, but the principle is clear.
The same cannot be said for box sets. That doesn't necessarily mean that they shouldn't have genres. But it would be nice to have some guidelines as to what principle should be used to determine them. While the OP's question is whether or not box sets should have them... what he is doing is removing genres that is already there with notes saying they don't belong. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
The OP's question was if box set should have genres, not if existing genres should be removed, and that's what I responded to. Or more specifically the claim that the rules are not vague.
The principle for assigning genres to a single move is simple. Assign the genres that most correspond to the action in the movie. The actual choices may be subjective, but the principle is clear.
The same cannot be said for box sets. That doesn't necessarily mean that they shouldn't have genres. But it would be nice to have some guidelines as to what principle should be used to determine them. You are mixing apples and oranges. Your claim that the principle for assigning genres differs, between single movie profiles and box set profiles, doesn't change the fact that the rules clearly allow them for box sets. On that point, which is the only point I was addressing, the rules are not vague. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,879 |
| | Posted: | | | | There is a simple solution for the OP's belief that box set parents should have no genre. Remove them and keep it local. I use this solution all the time.
I don't use Family or Classic as genres at all. I don't remove them from the online since I know other people do use them.
I believe Special Interest is blatantly wrong in Documentaries, but I see it there all the time. I only use it for exercise videos, discs of trailers, and experimental films. I don't remove it online because I once had an argument with Skip about it (about Special Interest being a vague genre and that therefore anything could be Special Interest), and it's not worth the stress.
Bottom line: The rules do not tell us how to assign genres. They tell us that we may, and that they should not be removed unless blatantly incorrect. The rules do not exempt box set parent profiles from this information (as they do with audio & video information). Therefore box set parent profiles may have genres. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield | | | | Last edited: by Danae Cassandra |
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