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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Uncredited |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,733 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm just an "accurate data" kind of guy, so for me, it all depends if these people actually do appear in the movie or not. If I know that they do, I'll happily add the proper (uncredited) tag. If I know that they don't, I'll just as happily remove them. |
| | Registered: May 9, 2007 | | Posts: 1,536 |
| | Posted: | | | | But what if you don't know?
Normally, if you don't know some part of data, you don't contribute. But in the case of cast/crew the remaining data may still be valuable. | | | | Hans |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
we have no idea whether the data was investigated or not. Exactly, and since proving a negative is virtually impossible. I think it's a shame that we can't "clean up" undocumented uncredited cast. But my local database continues to diverge from the online database over time (as do those of many other DVDP users) to the extent that the online becomes less useful and of less concern. --------------- |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | I guess I'm of the school of thought that the data had to have come from somewhere, and even if it was at some point from IMDb, then it probably has some validity. It is highly unlikely that someone simply added names of actors to profiles just for the heck of it.
I cannot do anything about what is currently in the database. It is what it is.
However, I do believe that if you are going to change data in the profile now, then you need to be able to provide support to make that change, even when it comes to removing uncredited cast. Yes this makes it extremely difficult, but I'm not sure that's really a bad thing. After all, what is the harm.
The situation in the OP is particularly troublesome, because the names are already in the profile, however, they have not been properly tagged as uncredited. People do make mistakes or they may have been unaware of the tagging process when they contributed them. There's no way to know why they aren't properly tagged. The profile has to be changed, one way or another. By ticking the "uncredited" box, it seems to me like all you are doing is saying that they are not in the credits when you reviewed them, and not necessarily that you have verified that they are in the movie. Someone else has previously claimed that they are in the movie by adding them to the cast list. That change, adding them, has previously been accepted by Invelos (or Intervocative), therefore they have approved their existence in the profile.
Ideally, each name should be researched in an attempt to validate whether they actually appeared or not. Most of the names probably won't have any reference except at IMDb, which according to standard practice, is not sufficient to keep them.
Personally, I won't remove uncredited unless I have evidence that they don't belong, and I require such evidence when voting, since all changes must be documented. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | If they are documented in the profile I do and the users just missed to flag uncredited: Just put this in my notes and do no further documentation.
If I copied from an existing profile with documentation: No further extra documentation.
If there's nothing about the uncredited actor: Try to do them by myself. If I can't do, delete them with explanation. |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
I cannot do anything about what is currently in the database. It is what it is. Why is that? Have your contribution privileges been revoked? It seems strange to me that someone who cares so passionately about the difference between a "studio" and a "company" should have so little concern over whether or not a profile's cast list accurately reflects who appeared in the film. But I suppose we all have our little quirks... --------------- |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
I cannot do anything about what is currently in the database. It is what it is.
Why is that? Have your contribution privileges been revoked?
It seems strange to me that someone who cares so passionately about the difference between a "studio" and a "company" should have so little concern over whether or not a profile's cast list accurately reflects who appeared in the film. But I suppose we all have our little quirks...
--------------- Why is it that you are following me around from thread to thread trying to pick a fight?  | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | In fact, whether we like it or not (I for one don't), we have a standing clarification by Invelos.
So Hal is correct, if there is the slightest chance that the data is correct we are not allowed to touch it.
Do I like this approach? No!
Can I change anything about it? No!
The effect: The online database is becoming less and less valuable for me.
This hasn't always been this way. In fact this loss of value isn't based in the database (it's as good or bad as it has always been), it is based in my change of priorities and in my changed understanding of valuable data.
So for me the conclusion out of this loss of value was quite easy: Lock my profiles and improve my local database. Only correct blatant errors in the online database. If I have to change my profile (e.g. add a Wardrobe Supervisor) to correct another error in the online data, I do not submit anymore.
In fact this approach saves a lot of my nerves and I have a lot more time to do what I actually prefer:
Watch the movies that are stored on this shiny discs we collect. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 | | | | Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | In cases such as this we are not touching Uncredited cast as they are not marked as uncredited in any form... as far as they show up in profiler they are just credited cast that is in there by error. So if the notes do note say they are uncredited... and nothing in profiler says they are uncredited. They can be correctly removed as wrongly credited cast. I don't mess with stuff that is marked as uncredited myself. But if there is no uncredited tag... and no mention of them in the notes I don't think twice about removing them as errors. I have done it this way since day one... and never had any problems... always approved and never any no votes. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 950 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
In cases such as this we are not touching Uncredited cast as they are not marked as uncredited in any form... as far as they show up in profiler they are just credited cast that is in there by error. So if the notes do note say they are uncredited... and nothing in profiler says they are uncredited. They can be correctly removed as wrongly credited cast. I don't mess with stuff that is marked as uncredited myself. But if there is no uncredited tag... and no mention of them in the notes I don't think twice about removing them as errors. I have done it this way since day one... and never had any problems... always approved and never any no votes. This is pretty much the way I've done this as well...and have never received no votes for this before either. No uncredited tag to me equals cast that was wrongly entered. I won't touch cast that does have the uncredited mark next to it, other than to check off the box if it hasn't yet been done. I rarely would be able to identify most of the uncredited and will leave it up to others who are more qualified than myself to do so. | | | | Lori |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
In cases such as this we are not touching Uncredited cast as they are not marked as uncredited in any form... as far as they show up in profiler they are just credited cast that is in there by error. So if the notes do note say they are uncredited... and nothing in profiler says they are uncredited. They can be correctly removed as wrongly credited cast. I don't mess with stuff that is marked as uncredited myself. But if there is no uncredited tag... and no mention of them in the notes I don't think twice about removing them as errors. I have done it this way since day one... and never had any problems... always approved and never any no votes. Pete, I understand what you are saying. We both agree that the original entry of these people in the cast list as "credited" was an error. It is the remedy that we disagree on. Your solution to correct them is complete removal on the premise that they are not valid cast at all. My solution is to correct the error of not checking the "uncredited" box. To me, it is far more likely that the contributor forgot to check the uncredited box (or add the uncredited tag in the old days), than it is that they simply entered a bunch of people at random who were not in the film. The fact that you have been removing them "since day one", and you don't get no votes, and they are accepted is not an affirmation that what you are doing is "correct" and what I am doing is "incorrect", because I can make the exact same claim about doing it my way since day 1, not getting no votes and getting my contributions accepted. We simply have a different way of viewing the proper way of dealing with it, and Invelos, as far as I know, has never taken an official stance on this particular issue. It would be nice if they would. I just think removal of data from the database, unless it is demonstrably incorrect, should not be done. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
The situation in the OP is particularly troublesome, because the names are already in the profile, however, they have not been properly tagged as uncredited. People do make mistakes or they may have been unaware of the tagging process when they contributed them. There's no way to know why they aren't properly tagged. The profile has to be changed, one way or another. By ticking the "uncredited" box, it seems to me like all you are doing is saying that they are not in the credits when you reviewed them, and not necessarily that you have verified that they are in the movie. That all sounds nice except that, on the contribution page, you are given this bit of instruction: This contribution contains uncredited cast entries. Please submit uncredited cast only if: You have personally identified the cast by viewing the film -OR- The cast is copied from a previously accepted profile with documented uncredited cast Be sure to specify the source in your contribution notes That means, by ticking the uncredited box, I am saying that I did one of those two things when, in fact, I did neither. Since I didn't, my only choice is to remove them. Quote:
Someone else has previously claimed that they are in the movie by adding them to the cast list. That change, adding them, has previously been accepted by Invelos (or Intervocative), therefore they have approved their existence in the profile. I have seen Invelos (or Intervocative) accept many things that are not correct so I am not basing my decision on that. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Silence_of_Lambs: Quote:
In fact, whether we like it or not (I for one don't), we have a standing clarification by Invelos. Actually, we don't. We have a standing clarification on undocumented uncredited cast, but we have nothing on cast that is listed as being credited when they aren't. Edit: I should have just agreed with Pete. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hal... I wrote the above because of what Silence_of_Lambs said about the clarification by Invelos... showing that isn't the case in these situations.
Other then that I we will just have to disagree. Because to just take it for granted that they were uncredited cast would go against what the contribution page says about uncredited cast. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
That all sounds nice except that, on the contribution page, you are given this bit of instruction:
This contribution contains uncredited cast entries. Please submit uncredited cast only if:
You have personally identified the cast by viewing the film
-OR- The cast is copied from a previously accepted profile with documented uncredited cast
Be sure to specify the source in your contribution notes
That means, by ticking the uncredited box, I am saying that I did one of those two things when, in fact, I did neither. Since I didn't, my only choice is to remove them.
Quote:
Someone else has previously claimed that they are in the movie by adding them to the cast list. That change, adding them, has previously been accepted by Invelos (or Intervocative), therefore they have approved their existence in the profile.
I have seen Invelos (or Intervocative) accept many things that are not correct so I am not basing my decision on that...not to mention the fact that. Except you aren't submitting the uncredited cast. They have already been previously submitted, but without being properly tagged. Ticking the uncredited box says that you did not find them in the actual film credits, in this case. Nothing more. This is not as clear cut as you are trying to make it. If you are actually adding cast that don't already exist in the profile and they are uncredited, then I agree with everything you said. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Except you aren't submitting the uncredited cast. They have already been previously submitted, but without being properly tagged. Ticking the uncredited box says that you did not find them in the actual film credits, in this case. Nothing more. This is not as clear cut as you are trying to make it. It is for me. I won't tick that box, the one on the contribution page, unless I have done one of the two things listed on that page. Since I won't, even if I did tick the uncredited box, the results would still be the same. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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