Quoting F1Database:

Quote:
I have done copy & paste of cast and crew a several times. But the situation was, that a dvd existed and i added a new bd-profile from the same movie.

Which is fine in practice...but you are making an assumption that the cast/crew you copy are correct.

Personally, I am happy to copy/paste the cast/crew from another profile but I ALWAYS check those entries against the actual credits before I submit them - after all the time consuming entering has been done and it's quite easy to check for accuracy.

I have no doubt that doing this is a very useful tool and that Ken fully supports it - but I also think he expected everyone to be responsible and check the data themselves too.

For example - I recently copied a full cast/crew list for a film from a US profile. Everything looked fine.
When I actually checked it against the film credits I had to completely re-order the cast and crew. I also removed 6 cast who were not listed or marked as uncredited. 17(!!!!!!) crew members were wrong - mainly sound/visual effects crew.
The person who submitted that profile had not been honest in their contribution notes (which stated the info was taken from the film credits) - and if I hadn't checked it myself I would have been adding bad data to the UK profile.

There's only so far that trust should go. Double checking doesn't take too much time.

Also, I'm a firm believer of 'if you're going to do it, then do it right or not at all'...so, as controversial as it will be: I'd rather all people who copy/past and DON'T check simply stop contributing because all you're doing is making more work for those of us who have to tidy up your mess later. 
(This last is not aimed specifically at you F1Database)

Quoting F1Database:

Quote:
I have done copy & paste of cast and crew a several times. But the situation was, that a dvd existed and i added a new bd-profile from the same movie.

F! that's no guarantee of anything. Take note of the comment I made regarding Con Air.

I understand that there might not be 100% accuracy with Copy and Paste usage.

I seldom find a profile that meets that standard. This includes contributions that were, according to the documentation, taken directly from the DVD's credits.

I've gone through thousands of DVDs and found tens of thousands of mistakes and omissions. In most of these contributions the errors/omissions I fixed were not from data taken from Copy and Paste.

If I have a profile that has mistakes, whether that data was taken via Copy and Paste or from the DVD's credits, I fix them. What is the big deal?

Personally, I prefer having a lot of the data already in front of me even if it has been taken from another profile, It saves me a lot of time when I do check that data against the credits.

Ideally every DVD would be taken from the credits and done so accurately. Hopefully this will occur. But, that can only happen if more of the community contributes.

Quoting Winston Smith:

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The issue is not the accuracy, Kathy. The issue is the completely blind copying without cross checking, I would never submit a copied profile that I had not verified against what I have in my hand. That is only reasonable,it'snotlazy, but it is reasonable and I think that such blindcopying without verification should absolutely be banned from the process and all voters should vote No toany blind copy. Howdo you know it is a blind copy...if the user doesn't state that he verified the copied data against his copy,then it'sprobably blind and global changes to everything in the database based on one single users desire to make global changes, should NEVER be allowed. Not ever.

Ken, Gerri and the screeners do not share your view point. Until I hear directly from them that my contributions violate invelos standards I will continue to contribute as I always have.

As far as the rest of your comments - why do you think it is appropriate or necessary to resort to name calling and insults?

I am neither lazy nor unreasonable and feel your disrespectful remarks should be banned.

Oboy here come the thought police again.    Perhgaps you should be banned foryour continued attempts to control speech and thought.     :angrySorry, Kathy, enough is enough of your stuff. I did not aim any remarks at you, but you sure did me.

Quoting ninehours:

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with the Invelos "Added Value" policy (which a lot of contributors are abusing because they know they can ignore "no" votes) the Screeners will ignore correct "No" votes and accept incorrect data anyway... it would seem that Invelos would rather have rubbish in a profile than no data at all. It is actually becoming pointless voting

What actually has become pointless are the Rules, which are frequently overruled by popular vote.

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Quoting Kathy:

Quote:
Personally, I prefer having a lot of the data already in front of me even if it has been taken from another profile, It saves me a lot of time when I do check that data against the credits.

This is very true, Kathy...but, also kind of where the problem lies.

Just to give a vague example:

If someone copies cast/crew from a profile that has been mined from IMDB and submits that profile to the online db it has an instant impact on the CLT.
So, if another person copies the same data and states (as per Ken's instructions) that the information was taken from another accepted profile then the bad data is duplicated.

This is a vicious cycle of bad data breeding through our database.

I am currently in the process of auditing my 6,000+ collection and locking as I go. Because once it's done I will know, beyond reasonable human error, that my collection is 100% correct.
This will also mean that any future updates to Credited As entries I will be able to check quite quickly using the CLT.....

unless the CLT has been corrupted by copied, unchecked data.

At least that's how I see it.

In the bigger pictures of issues with Profiler that need addressing, I will agree that this one seems quite small.

I think the best way I can explain why it bothers me is this:
Over the course of 2006 and to June 2007 I edited every film in my collection and a lot of my TV shows.

I then moved house and other things became more important than Profiler; so I began accepting changes into my database to cast and crew. Admittedly, most of these were Credited As entries; but other changes were simply 'correcting errors' in the profile - actor names and roles. Some of these copied from other accepted profiles.
I accepted these also, thinking that I had simply made mistakes when I was editing and someone else was picking up on those errors.

Well, since I started my re-edit (and I'm only 312 films in) I have probably found around 20 titles that I haven't had to correct something. Of the rest maybe 30-40 were small errors. But the rest have been complete rubbish where people have simply lied in their notes to get IMDB data or personal preference into the database.
I realise I'm not perfect and I make mistakes - but no way did I make that many mistakes!

So, if I am finding that many mistakes on a daily basis then there is a definite problem.

The other issue is this: I see many profiles being submitted where someone says they have copied the data...but they haven't even bothered to check for 3.7 crew or Cast/Crew dividers. I'm sorry, but if you're going to submit data then at least get it up to date.

As I've said though, I'm locking all my stuff as I go and I have no intention of ever trusting anyone's data again on those locked profiles. With a collection the size of mine it's just not worth it.

I guess, when it comes down to it, we all have different experiences with our collection databases - and different things get us worked up. This happens to be one of mine!