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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next
uncredited actors
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLewis_Prothero
Strength Through Unity
Registered: May 19, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:

This isn't some everyday animal that nobody knows, it is a known animal actor with acting credit.  You don't have to agree, but there really was no reason to be a sarcastic donkey. 

Sorry for being a "sarcastic donkey", but this discussion is so ridiculous, I just wanted to show up it's comic elements. And BTW, if you open this door for a horse, then why not for rat, or a Guinea Pig?

Have you ever heard about the job called "horse painter"?
The first time I noticed this job was in a film called "Hidalgo". This guy only has one thing to do: To make horse A look exactly like horse B. If these two look identical on the screen, how do you distinguish them??
So, as long as there are guys out there to make two horses look alike, please allow me to doubt "personal identification". If this film would have shown up in it's official record, that would have been a completely different story ... but, alas, it doesn't.
It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?


Registrant since 05/22/2003
 Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantjmbox
Registered: April 14, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 415
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Silence has a good point. How can you tell one animal from another, or one made up to look like another?

If Trigger is indeed mentioned in an official documentary, I would accept that as a source.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:
Quote:
Sorry for being a "sarcastic donkey", but this discussion is so ridiculous, I just wanted to show up it's comic elements. And BTW, if you open this door for a horse, then why not for rat, or a Guinea Pig?

Show me a rat or a guinea pig with 69 credits to their name, and we can talk.
Quote:
Have you ever heard about the job called "horse painter"?
The first time I noticed this job was in a film called "Hidalgo". This guy only has one thing to do: To make horse A look exactly like horse B. If these two look identical on the screen, how do you distinguish them??
So, as long as there are guys out there to make two horses look alike, please allow me to doubt "personal identification". If this film would have shown up in it's official record, that would have been a completely different story ... but, alas, it doesn't.

Yes, I am aware of the fact that some characters are played by multiple animals made to look the same, but Trigger isn't one of them.  The OP stated that she read this information somewhere, then watched the film to confirm it.  ya_shin stated that he remembers it being mentioned in one of the documentaries...I guess you must have missed those two posts. 

I don't know what official record you are looking for, but a quick search found this:

From IMDb, "The golden palomino that Olivia de Havilland rides in this film is Trigger, shortly before he became the mount of Roy Rogers.

From Wikipedia, "Trigger (then named Golden Cloud) was the horse ridden by Olivia de Havilland in the film. Roy Rogers admired the horse so much that he bought Trigger to use in his own films. This eventually made Trigger one of the most famous animals in show business."

From Sneakpeak.ca, "Golden Cloud's early acting resume included playing the horse of 'Maid Marian' in the 1938 feature "The Adventures of Robin Hood" with actress Olivia de Havilland famously riding Golden Cloud side saddle."  (Golden Cloud was Triggers original name)

From Filmsite.org, "After swinging from a treetop, Robin delivers another welcome to Maid Marian, who has accompanied the Norman column, riding on a palomino horse [called Golden Cloud - that later became Roy Rogers' horse Trigger."

I could go on, but I don't think I need to.  While there is no 'official' site, it seems fairly clear that Trigger was in this film and should be included in the profile.  Where the OP made an error was in the wording of her contribution notes.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting jmbox:
Quote:
Silence has a good point. How can you tell one animal from another, or one made up to look like another?

Indeed he does, and it applies to the examples he created.  It does not, however, apply to the example in the OP.  Trigger is one of the most famous animal actors in America and his appearance in this film, as I just demonstrated, was very easy to document.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:
Quote:
I think I have some major updates to do.
I've personally identified 3 of the rats appearing in "Wanted" and am currently in E-Mail contact with the animal wranglers, to find out the names of the other 3.500. This will possibly turn out to be nothing else but "Rat 1", but it's a name.
Come to that, we'd possibly need birthyears for them too, taking into consideration how many rats are appearing in movies.

If Danae's attempt to add Trigger leads you to expend the effort necessary to document 3,500 rats, by all means, have fun with that.  Realistically, I don't foresee a stampede to document animal appearances, except for notable cases such as Trigger. Another example is Asta the Dog in the Thin Man series...credited in some of the films but listed as (uncredited) for others. (Yes, the heresy of uncredited animals already exists in the database! Horrors.)
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantjmbox
Registered: April 14, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 415
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Trigger (then named Golden Cloud)

A shame that we can't use Trigger [Golden Cloud] in an uncredited entry...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLewis_Prothero
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Registered: May 19, 2007
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Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
If Danae's attempt to add Trigger leads you to expend the effort necessary to document 3,500 rats, by all means, have fun with that.

It was a (admittedly somewhat exaggerated) joke, to make clear how absurd I consider this idea to be.
Not necessarily for the animal in the example, but it opens a door. In fact there really is not much of a difference between the (well-known) "Trigger" and the anonymous "Rat 1" (or Ichtyoid #250000003).
According to the rules either both are allowed, or none.
The rest is a question whether it makes sense to enter them ... oooops  (so I'm sure we'll find someone to literally count through the anthill)

Anyhow: the poll results are quite clear, I bow to the majority.
It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?


Registrant since 05/22/2003
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorVirusPil
uncredited
Registered: January 1, 2009
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Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:
Quote:
... In fact there really is not much of a difference between the (well-known) "Trigger" and the anonymous "Rat 1" (or Ichtyoid #250000003).
According to the rules either both are allowed, or none.
...

I understand the problematic, but I think this will get regulated by it's own.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:
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but it opens a door.

I think Asta the Dog has been in The Thin Man as uncredited since it came out in 2005. The door's been open. The only people who care to deal with the open door are few and far between. I think we can rest easy that anthills will not spawn thousands of uncredited ant entries. 
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
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While there is no 'official' site, it seems fairly clear that Trigger was in this film and should be included in the profile.

No, what is evident is that Trigger may be included in the credits, not should be.  Even the rules don't say that uncredited actors "should be" included ("Uncredited actors may be listed in alphabetical order following all credited actors.")

---------------
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
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Registered: May 19, 2007
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The sarcastic donkey was credited in Shrek.

Just sayin'
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
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I remember one DVD I updated when the animal actors had their own make-up artist!  Seriously.

Back to the original question: Yes, this is a legitimate contribution. Animals have been entered into the database as Cast.

Since animal actors are Cast then they are treated the same as far as invelos is concerned.

Therefore, Uncredited Cast rules apply for Cast whether they be human or not.

With your explanation and thorough documentation this should be accepted by the screeners.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
Registered: May 26, 2007
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Looks like I got that consensus.  Thanks everybody.

I'll go ahead and resubmit the contribution.  If you don't mind, Martian, I'll cite the references you brought up, as well as the doc that ya_shin mentioned, in the contribution notes.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLewis_Prothero
Strength Through Unity
Registered: May 19, 2007
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Quoting Dr. Killpatient:
Quote:
The sarcastic donkey was credited in Shrek.


I have a credit in Shrek?!

Coooool
It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?


Registrant since 05/22/2003
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
Looks like I got that consensus.  Thanks everybody.

I'll go ahead and resubmit the contribution.  If you don't mind, Martian, I'll cite the references you brought up, as well as the doc that ya_shin mentioned, in the contribution notes.

Feel free...no point in doing the double work.  I just hope it is enough to get him in.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLewis_Prothero
Strength Through Unity
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 6,730
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Just one more minor point:
While "personal identification" and "copying from accepted profiles" are allowed sources, "Third party" data is not.
Not sure how to handle this now: Ignoring the rules to enter correct data, or leave out data and obey the rules?? <Shrugs>
It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?


Registrant since 05/22/2003
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