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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
Why are my contribution voted with "No"?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJTh
Registered: June 26, 2009
Denmark Posts: 8
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Wow - Thanks for all honest and constructive reply's  It's great to see that people really care about what we contribute and how to do it. Appriciated 

Regarding IMDB - I'm quite aware of the copyright issue, and when making updates data should always come from the source. But then we have the issue about the correct source. In some cases (actually a lot) - the movie it self do not provide all the required info. DVD versions of "old" movies don't always contain the credit and info list at the end of the movie - in these cases you have to use other reliable sources. such as Movie Companies, Actor and Genre sites (which aren't always consistent). And at the end you realise that the information you have gathered - in most cases are aligned with the info in IMDB and other sites (because they have done the same exercise). So if you use these kind of sites as pure validation, I can not see the issue.   

The correct source can always be challenged - I have even discovered errors in the credit list at the of a movie. We just have to do best we can and hope for the best in our  updates.
Thanks again 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLewis_Prothero
Strength Through Unity
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 6,730
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Quoting JTh:
Quote:
Wow - Thanks for all honest and constructive reply's  It's great to see that people really care about what we contribute and how to do it. Appriciated 

Don't mention it, it was a pleasure.

Quote:
Regarding IMDB - I'm quite aware of the copyright issue, and when making updates data should always come from the source. But then we have the issue about the correct source.

For DVDProfiler purposes there is only one source: The DVD itself.
Advantage: in theory every error in a profile is easy to spot, and could/should be corrected with the next profile update.
Third party material is only allowed as supporting sources for birthyears. Here you'd usually need at least two independent sources, or the official site of the Cast-/Crew- Member.

Quote:
In some cases (actually a lot) - the movie it self do not provide all the required info. DVD versions of "old" movies don't always contain the credit and info list at the end of the movie - in these cases you have to use other reliable sources.

Correct (for the first part),
the problem with external sources usually is their reliability. That's why for DVDProfiler's maindatabase there are only two "sources" allowed for uncredited cast:
1) Personal identification: (you'd have to recognize the actor/actress). For making this verifiable to other users it has shown to be useful to give a timecode of the appearance, even though it is not required by the contribution rules.

2) Other already accepted profiles of this title: Personally I don't like this source very much, because it's inclined to spread errors throughout the maindatabase. It has a certain value though.

Quote:
[...] And at the end you realise that the information you have gathered - in most cases are aligned with the info in IMDB and other sites (because they have done the same exercise). So if you use these kind of sites as pure validation, I can not see the issue.   

The issue is, that IMDb has on several occasions been proven to be incorrect.
There's even the assumption that IMDb implements errors on purpose, for cases where they'd have to prove a copyright violation ("This is our incorrect data, and if it appears in your database, you stole it").
So, as said before, feel free to do whatever you like in your local database. You can customize this program and it's data to be of as much use as possible for your personal purposes. You just shouldn't (for not saying: "must not") contribute this data to the main database.

Quote:
The correct source can always be challenged - I have even discovered errors in the credit list at the of a movie. We just have to do best we can and hope for the best in our  updates.
Thanks again 

The source is the source, and by definition undisputed.
There is a main error-source though:
typos:
-a) either by the contributor of the profile, which should be corrected with the next profile update

-b) or in the credits, for this we have the "Credited As"-feature, that should ensure a correct linking. (e.g. you find a movie where "Lino Ventura" accidentally got credited as "Vino Lentura", for solving this, in the profile editor you click on the correct name (Lino Ventura) and in the next window you'd enter the credited name (Vino Lentura). This got established to provide a correct linking while still showing the correct credit.
It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?


Registrant since 05/22/2003
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJTh
Registered: June 26, 2009
Denmark Posts: 8
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Hi Silence_of_Lambs

Thanks again for a very comprehensive answer. 
I totally agree with the cast/crew issue, visual recognition in the movie is the best source of information you can get. There are though information about the movie itself that is hard to gain, if it's not mentioned at the end of the movie; prodution year, country, location, release year / date - in these cases I can not see any alternatives other than to search infomation from third party sources like studio og actor sites - Or? 
 Last edited: by JTh
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLewis_Prothero
Strength Through Unity
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 6,730
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Quoting JTh:
Quote:
There are though information about the movie itself that is hard to gain, if it's not mentioned at the end of the movie; prodution year, country, location, release year / date - in these cases I can not see any alternatives other than to search infomation from third party sources like studio og actor sites - Or? 

Yupp,
you're correct here.
I'd like to add "SRP" to the list of your examples.
But if you don't have highly trustworthy sources (official site of the movie/studio), it's always best to name at least two sources.
It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?


Registrant since 05/22/2003
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Jt:

Of course there are things which will be a bit difficult to obtain but but if in such cases one were to provide at least two sources of documentation then you should be in good stead. SRP is a very entertaining area for third party datqa sources, SRP is not a standard for all retailers(etailers), it is usually established by the "Manufacturer", which we only sometimes might have access to that "direct" info, retailers all have their own policies regarding how the deal with SRP, and it can vary by up to a $.25 over any given title and retailer. This is why the Rules spell out NOT to make changes for a few cents.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,328
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Some countries don't have SRPs (ie. Hong Kong).
My Home Theater
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantkjz
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2
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Also an interesting observation i made:

Some entries in the database are very old, i.e. contributed a long time ago. Some informations are wrong but no one cares. So I made some corrections. But suddenly another contribution appears, making more corrections and my own contribution is voted with 'No'.

Why some users don't react or care for months or years but then make instantly a competing contribution?
 Last edited: by kjz
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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Quoting kjz:
Quote:
Also an interesting observation i made:

Some entries in the database are very old, i.e. contributed a long time ago. Some informations are wrong but no one cares. So I made some corrections. But suddenly another contribution appears, making more corrections and my own contribution is voted with 'No'.

Why some user don't react or care for month or years but then make instantly a competing contribution?

Thankfully I haven't seen this too often, but it's still a right pain when you've gone out of your way to make a good submission.
Personally I'd prefer it that no one can submit a change to a profile that has a change pending. Let that one take its course before submitting.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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kjz:

That is a very bold statement, and perhaps correct but not in my experience. i see users like yourself every week, who believe that they are correcting data on an old profiler when the fact is that they are wrong. I would suggest that you provide some specifics as to exactly what you are referring instead of generalities.

As to your second statement, If you make one change but someone has figured out that there are more than just that single change...well. Now I would encourage them to not step on your toes, contribute the changes that they have found, but they should not contribute what has already been done by someone else if it is correct in my opinion. But, by the same token I could ask you why you did not make the other changes as well., I don't know.<shrugs>

If you don't want to get overly specific publicly, you can drop me a note and i will try and assist you with a specific issue.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorVirusPil
uncredited
Registered: January 1, 2009
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 3,087
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Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
Quoting kjz:
Quote:
Also an interesting observation i made:

Some entries in the database are very old, i.e. contributed a long time ago. Some informations are wrong but no one cares. So I made some corrections. But suddenly another contribution appears, making more corrections and my own contribution is voted with 'No'.

Why some user don't react or care for month or years but then make instantly a competing contribution?

Thankfully I haven't seen this too often, but it's still a right pain when you've gone out of your way to make a good submission.
Personally I'd prefer it that no one can submit a change to a profile that has a change pending. Let that one take its course before submitting.


This would be nice, but sometimes, there are very much bad contributions at the beginning, which would take a lot of time until the first big or good updates will come through.
But a big advantage: It would also make the comparison much easier.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCharlieM
Registered Sept 5 2005
Registered: May 20, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,934
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Quoting kjz:
Quote:
Also an interesting observation i made:

Some entries in the database are very old, i.e. contributed a long time ago. Some informations are wrong but no one cares. So I made some corrections. But suddenly another contribution appears, making more corrections and my own contribution is voted with 'No'.

Why some users don't react or care for months or years but then make instantly a competing contribution?



I find that what happens with me.  If you submit a change, most of the time I will pull the disc and verify you contribution.

Depending on the condition of the profile, I may very well do an audit at that time, or put it into a stack of to do.  If I do an Audit, I try not to contribute before another has been accepted.

Trust me, it is not a matter of not caring.  Even with my mediocre collection, it would take a long time to go through and correct the mistakes or add the new items that are now allowed or changed because of a rules change.

Don't take it personally, If yours was first, it should be accepted first.  It is a community effort, just go with the flow....


Charlie
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
Aim high. Ride the wind.
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 6,458
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Nice thread. Just wanted to stop by and give props. Some good info here ...
Thanks for your support.
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Hey, new product!!! BDPFrog.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsynnerman
Take me with you. Please.
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 736
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Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
Quoting kjz:
Quote:
Also an interesting observation i made:

Some entries in the database are very old, i.e. contributed a long time ago. Some informations are wrong but no one cares. So I made some corrections. But suddenly another contribution appears, making more corrections and my own contribution is voted with 'No'.

Why some users don't react or care for months or years but then make instantly a competing contribution?



I find that what happens with me.  If you submit a change, most of the time I will pull the disc and verify you contribution.

Depending on the condition of the profile, I may very well do an audit at that time, or put it into a stack of to do.  If I do an Audit, I try not to contribute before another has been accepted.

Trust me, it is not a matter of not caring.  Even with my mediocre collection, it would take a long time to go through and correct the mistakes or add the new items that are now allowed or changed because of a rules change.

Don't take it personally, If yours was first, it should be accepted first.  It is a community effort, just go with the flow....


Charlie


I agree with this, except one cavaet: don't duplicate the same corrections as the pending contribution (unless you are fixing info that is still wrong in that contribution).  If the person is entering corrected CoO, Release Date and SRP, but you found that the subtitles and audio tracks were also wrong, only submit the two that are necessary.  I occasionally see someone swipe the work of an existing submission in addition to the changes they want to make and it is unnecessary.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCharlieM
Registered Sept 5 2005
Registered: May 20, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,934
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Quoting synner_man:
Quote:


I agree with this, except one cavaet: don't duplicate the same corrections as the pending contribution (unless you are fixing info that is still wrong in that contribution).  If the person is entering corrected CoO, Release Date and SRP, but you found that the subtitles and audio tracks were also wrong, only submit the two that are necessary.  I occasionally see someone swipe the work of an existing submission in addition to the changes they want to make and it is unnecessary.


When I do the audit, I will always incorporate the current submission(s) into my audit (as long as they are correct).  I try not to contribute (sometimes I jump the gun accidentally) until the contribution(s) are accepted.  That way I can lock down mine during the update, and not miss the good information.  Now when I contribute mine, it will show up as a non changed item.  No fuss.
 Last edited: by CharlieM
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