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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Crew Credits: How do you want to track them? |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: October 6, 2008 |  Posts: 1,932 |
| | Posted: | | | | I would favor a system which has the limited roles much as we have now, but which online system would also take note of the Other field.
So if you fill in a role in the Other field and check a predefined role, it would record the Other data in the category of the selected role. If you fill in the Other field, but select the Other radio button, the online would ignore the cast listing.
Existing data would remain valid (predefined role and no Other data), and WYSIWYT data could be added as desired. Actual credits would be categorized so that all variants of Re-Recording Mixer (for example) would sort together. Voters would have the advantage of seeing the actual credit and the predefined credit to catch any errors. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
No it doesn't, don't exaggerate. We did not have ANY crew beyond Director until FIVE years ago, when Ken setup the system we have NOW. And Open Credits in ANY form would be a VAST improvement over what we have right now. Ten years, you are funny, i will give you credit for that. I registered, with IVS, on May 8, 2001. I am quite sure, and Ken can correct me if I am wrong, that we had more than just directors back then. When the original rules were published, on June 30, 2005, they included 20 crew credits. Are you telling me that that was the first time we had any crew beyond Director?  Not that it really matters...whether it be five, six, or ten, years of work, you are still advocating throwing it all away. Quote:
And it does not throw away any work, it improves mightily on what we have. Does it mean more work, sure it does. How do you figure? If we go to open credits, like we have with cast, every profile will lose the data that is contained in the radio buttons. While Ken might be able to convert the radio buttons to text based data, it won't match the actual credits...which is what you want. Spin it any way you want, to get what you want, we have to scrap the old system and start from scratch. Speaking for myself, I don't want to do that. Keeping what we have, and making the Custom Role field contributable, is what will improve on what we have done. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Whatever option that would add Martial Arts Director is what I would vote for.  I can't believe it's not in the contributable crew list. There are tons of DVDs that tout Martial Arts Direction by Yuen Wo Ping or Sammo Hung whereas I can't think of one that boldly list the rerecording artist or makeup artist on the DVD tagline. Or CG Supervisor. I think having a base system like we have now (with corrected and proper definitions and examples) would still work as a start. Allow people that want to contribute via that system, do so. If peoiple want to contribute further, then allow the Custom work to be contributed, still with the basis of the current system. Give the user the option, within the program to display extended credit information or not. So we would have Production Executive Producer Extended Credit Producer Extended Credit Other Extended Credit Next Section Allow a person, that only wants to see the base information, the ability to see X = Producer While someone else will see the extended credit X = Produced by The exended credits will also allow the "other" group to be viewed. I think we would need to expand the sections Costumes/hair/makeup could be one Visual/Special/Digital/photgraphic could be another But allow the option, then nobody is forced to complete open credits, unless they choose. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
No it doesn't, don't exaggerate. We did not have ANY crew beyond Director until FIVE years ago, when Ken setup the system we have NOW. And Open Credits in ANY form would be a VAST improvement over what we have right now. Ten years, you are funny, i will give you credit for that.
I registered, with IVS, on May 8, 2001. I am quite sure, and Ken can correct me if I am wrong, that we had more than just directors back then. When the original rules were published, on June 30, 2005, they included 20 crew credits. Are you telling me that that was the first time we had any crew beyond Director?
Not that it really matters...whether it be five, six, or ten, years of work, you are still advocating throwing it all away.
Quote:
And it does not throw away any work, it improves mightily on what we have. Does it mean more work, sure it does.
How do you figure? If we go to open credits, like we have with cast, every profile will lose the data that is contained in the radio buttons. While Ken might be able to convert the radio buttons to text based data, it won't match the actual credits...which is what you want. Spin it any way you want, to get what you want, we have to scrap the old system and start from scratch. Speaking for myself, I don't want to do that. Keeping what we have, and making the Custom Role field contributable, is what will improve on what we have done. Nope, we ONLY had Directors, Pal. I remember because I immediately started lobbying for more Crew than just Directors. And now i am not saying throw ANYTHING, I am saying stop this poorly defined and shoehorned data and let's give the data REAL definition and REAL: meaning. I don't how you could even say that open creds throws ANYTHING out, that just absolutely bizarre. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
I think having a base system like we have now (with corrected and proper definitions and examples) would still work as a start. Allow people that want to contribute via that system, do so. If peoiple want to contribute further, then allow the Custom work to be contributed, still with the basis of the current system. Give the user the option, within the program to display extended credit information or not.
***SNIP***
But allow the option, then nobody is forced to complete open credits, unless they choose. This would be option number three in the poll, keep what we have, but allow the custom roles...which would match the actual credits...to be contributed. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
It would be no more work than we had when he first got Crew Credits, Martian.
True...except for the fact that it throws away ten plus years worth of work that we have already done. I, for one, do not want to chuck it all and start from scratch.
Quote:
All I want to be able to do, with Open Credits, is to be able to decide for myself what pieces of data are important to me.
But you can do that now, using the 'Other' section, you just have to do the work yourself.
No it doesn't, don't exaggerate. We did not have ANY crew beyond Director until FIVE years ago, when Ken setup the system we have NOW. And Open Credits in ANY form would be a VAST improvement over what we have right now. Ten years, you are funny, i will give you credit for that.
And it does not throw away any work, it improves mightily on what we have. Does it mean more work, sure it does.
Skip Careful acusing someone of exagerating if you aren't completely accurate.  It's actually closer to 5 1/2 or even 6 years ago. The crew additions you are referring to were added in version 2.3 released sometime in the fall of 2004 and was in Beta late summer 2004. You may "remember it" different;y but I go on what I can document, not what I remember. 2.3 release notesSeptember 3rd 2004 - already in BetaTiming wise it was about a year after DVD sales passed VHS. I have no idea how many DVDs were on the market in 2004 when crew was added but I know there are a heck of a lot more now then there were then!!! I'm guessing the Invelos DB has grown just as significantly since then. |
|  | Dan W | | Registered: May 9, 2002 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 980 |
| | Posted: | | | | Open Credits????
Count me in!!!!!!!!
Open Credits entered as they are in the film is the ONLY way to actually move forward. Hollywood filmmakers change their titles on any whim that strikes them and if you stay with the broke-leg system you have now, you are choosing to force-fit more titles. Titles that you will have to write more rules and exceptions for.
As it is now, you can not even track the Oscars properly, let alone any other award.
PS - Just for clarity, I'm not likely to begin contributing again regardless of what Ken decides to do. | | | | Dan | | | | Last edited: by Dan W |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lyonsden5: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
It would be no more work than we had when he first got Crew Credits, Martian.
True...except for the fact that it throws away ten plus years worth of work that we have already done. I, for one, do not want to chuck it all and start from scratch.
Quote:
All I want to be able to do, with Open Credits, is to be able to decide for myself what pieces of data are important to me.
But you can do that now, using the 'Other' section, you just have to do the work yourself.
No it doesn't, don't exaggerate. We did not have ANY crew beyond Director until FIVE years ago, when Ken setup the system we have NOW. And Open Credits in ANY form would be a VAST improvement over what we have right now. Ten years, you are funny, i will give you credit for that.
And it does not throw away any work, it improves mightily on what we have. Does it mean more work, sure it does.
Skip
Careful acusing someone of exagerating if you aren't completely accurate. It's actually closer to 5 1/2 or even 6 years ago. The crew additions you are referring to were added in version 2.3 released sometime in the fall of 2004 and was in Beta late summer 2004.
You may "remember it" different;y but I go on what I can document, not what I remember.
2.3 release notes
September 3rd 2004 - already in Beta
Timing wise it was about a year after DVD sales passed VHS. I have no idea how many DVDs were on the market in 2004 when crew was added but I know there are a heck of a lot more now then there were then!!! I'm guessing the Invelos DB has grown just as significantly since then. I am SO unimpressed, Rick. The Martian was claiming 10 years which is patently untrue and a HUGE exaggeration.  We were developing Rules to the newly created Crew Roles and the Rule were published in July 0f 2005Dan has Always been advocate of Open Creds, as have I. But the Rules dealt with the cards that Ken gave us to play. If my memory serves me correctly both Dan and myself were all too aware of the bear trap we were walking into. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
I am SO unimpressed, Rick. The Martian was claiming 10 years which is patently untrue and a HUGE exaggeration.
We were developing Rules to the newly created Crew Roles and the Rule were published in July 0f 2005 Just so we are clear, it was an estimate based on how long I have been using Profiler. Not that it matters as I am not willing to throw away any work...be it five years or five months. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Dan has Always been advocate of Open Creds, as have I. But the Rules dealt with the cards that Ken gave us to play. If my memory serves me correctly both Dan and myself were all too aware of the bear trap we were walking into. Then why didn't you mention it five years ago? I mean, if we didn't have anything to begin with, why not suggest it then?  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
I am SO unimpressed, Rick. The Martian was claiming 10 years which is patently untrue and a HUGE exaggeration.
We were developing Rules to the newly created Crew Roles and the Rule were published in July 0f 2005
Just so we are clear, it was an estimate based on how long I have been using Profiler. Not that it matters as I am not willing to throw away any work...be it five years or five months. We are not advocating throwing data away, stop your rhetoric, you sound a like a Washington politician making claims which do not resemble the truth in any way. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Dan has Always been advocate of Open Creds, as have I. But the Rules dealt with the cards that Ken gave us to play. If my memory serves me correctly both Dan and myself were all too aware of the bear trap we were walking into.
Then why didn't you mention it five years ago? I mean, if we didn't have anything to begin with, why not suggest it then? WE DID.  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Dan W | | Registered: May 9, 2002 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 980 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
I am SO unimpressed, Rick. The Martian was claiming 10 years which is patently untrue and a HUGE exaggeration.
We were developing Rules to the newly created Crew Roles and the Rule were published in July 0f 2005
Just so we are clear, it was an estimate based on how long I have been using Profiler. Not that it matters as I am not willing to throw away any work...be it five years or five months. It seems your faith in Ken's abilities are at an all-time low. From what I have seen of the utilities used by many of profiler's users to strip data from IMDB, it isn't that difficult a task to convert the current accepted data to something new. | | | | Dan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | wasn't trying to impress you... I was merely pointing out that you too exaggerated. For the record you didn't say the rules were published in 2005. You said " We did not have ANY crew beyond Director until FIVE years ago, when Ken setup the system we have NOW." That is simply not true.  |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | Heylos, I voted for no changes. My reason is, that I am only interested in the major crew roles, like director, writer, Cinematographer, Composer, Editor and the Producers. For me the whole Art Direction, Sound recordists and Visual FX guys are too much and I never bother to contribute them. I think we should keep focus on what this program is, and that is a DVD Profiler , not a Movie database. But, if the majority thinks different (right now it seems most want to keep it as it is) , let them have it, but then I would like to have an option of not letting all those billions of crew entries into of my database, when I am updating my prfiles. And I do not mean to manually delete them  Just a box I have to tick, that I only get the major crew persons cheers Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com |
| | Dan W | | Registered: May 9, 2002 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 980 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Dan has Always been advocate of Open Creds, as have I. But the Rules dealt with the cards that Ken gave us to play. If my memory serves me correctly both Dan and myself were all too aware of the bear trap we were walking into.
Then why didn't you mention it five years ago? I mean, if we didn't have anything to begin with, why not suggest it then? Skip beat me to it but that suggestion was made at length and it was strenuously argued for. But, when all you have is a disfunctional system, you do what you can to make it work. Hence the necessity for the Rules. | | | | Dan | | | | Last edited: by Dan W |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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