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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Tim... you are reading more into it then what it actually says. I don't see where it says anywhere to only use the credit sometimes. You and I have had similar discussion before... you know that is something I will not do (Reading more into the rules then they actually say). I will take the rules for exactly what they say unless Ken/Gerri makes a clarification... then and only then do I contribute or vote differently then what the rules literally say. | | | | Pete |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,732 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yeah, I know, Pete: you see "Primarily", and you automatically ignore anything that follows, simply because it doesn't say "only" or "exclusively". The use of the word "primarily" has rendered the note 100% meaningless to you - whether the note is there or not doesn't make a shred of difference to you. IMHO it's the difference between collecting data just for the sake of collecting data, and collecting data that actually means something. We'll never see eye to eye on this, so I suggest we stop trying... | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | It isn't that I am ignoring it... I am reading and comprehending every word of it. I just don't see anything there saying not to use it for modern movies. So if the rules are not telling me not to use if it is in a modern movie... or how to tell the difference on when to use it for modern movies and when not to... why would I not use it for modern movies? It makes absolutely no sense not to use it for modern movies just from that note alone. | | | | Pete |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,732 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
or how to tell the difference on when to use it for modern movies and when not to... That's indeed the hard part - and that's a problem I can understand. Of course I'm always happy to try and explain, but preferably to someone who's genuinely interested. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
... or how to tell the difference on when to use it for modern movies and when not to... This is the key issue. There is no guidance provided to distinguish when to use it for modern films and when not to. | | | | Hal |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,732 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
... or how to tell the difference on when to use it for modern movies and when not to...
This is the key issue. There is no guidance provided to distinguish when to use it for modern films and when not to. Indeed, and there should be. We've got some users working in the film sound industry who are perfectly capable to provide such guidance. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
... or how to tell the difference on when to use it for modern movies and when not to...
This is the key issue. There is no guidance provided to distinguish when to use it for modern films and when not to. Not to mention the fact that the word 'modern' is subjective at best. I mean, what constitutes a modern film? While it isn't ideal, the easiest method, the one that will allow the most people to contribute, is to simply enter what the crew chart allows. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,732 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Not to mention the fact that the word 'modern' is subjective at best. I mean, what constitutes a modern film? The rule doesn't even use the word 'modern' here - it's actually the opposite, 'older films'. But the problem is the same, obviously...  | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Not to mention the fact that the word 'modern' is subjective at best. I mean, what constitutes a modern film?
The rule doesn't even use the word 'modern' here - it's actually the opposite, 'older films'. But the problem is the same, obviously... Indeed, I neglected to reread the chart before I posted and, yea, the problem remains the same. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
... or how to tell the difference on when to use it for modern movies and when not to...
This is the key issue. There is no guidance provided to distinguish when to use it for modern films and when not to.
Not to mention the fact that the word 'modern' is subjective at best. I mean, what constitutes a modern film? While it isn't ideal, the easiest method, the one that will allow the most people to contribute, is to simply enter what the crew chart allows. Exactly... this is the obvious way of doing it in my opinion. Someone else explaining something like this to me... when the rules don't even say not to use it for all films... don't make any sense to me... because I don't know what they are saying matches up to what Invelos wants. The only ones that could say that is Ken or Gerri. | | | | Pete |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,732 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I don't know what they are saying matches up to what Invelos wants. Which is why such guidance would need to be incorporated into the rules. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | And then we would have something. Until Ken or Gerri speaks up or changes the rules themselves I see nothing there telling us we shouldn't use these credits whether the movie is older or a modern one. Just telling us we will see this in "Primarily Older Films" is no more then a statement of where we are expected to see it. It is not saying if we see it in more modern films to not use the credit. Besides that... how old of a movie is "older" they don't say? One could argue if it is in B&W it is an older movie. But at the same time one could argue a movie that came out last year is an older movie. Or anywhere in between.
I mean really... to be completely honest that note is not telling us all that much at all. It don't tell us what to do if we see it in a modern movie one way or the other... and don't tell us what they consider to be "older." | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
There's no role in the crew table for "Dubbing Recordist".
If it were just "Recordist", you'd have an argument.
There's no role in the crew table for "Recordist" either - and rightly so. There is for "Sound Recordist", but that's something else entirely - one really shouldn't be mistaken for the other. Ok...now I'm confused. I will freely admit to NOT being any kind of expert on the sound section. In all honesty I have no interest in this section and only complete it for the benefit of others (and to complete a profile). So...if I see 'Re-Recording Mixer' in the sound section of a films credits I will add this to the profile as a Sound Re-Recording Mixer. Is this correct or does the absence of the word 'Sound' mean I should leave it out? Personally, I don't think so and would add this entry. I therefore follow the same logic with the rest of the sound section. If someone is listed within the sound section as a 'Recordist' then I will add this under 'Sound'. Now...if this is completely incorrect due to there being a significant difference between a Sound Recordist and a Recordist then please let me know (but preferably try not to bore me in the process  ). |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,732 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Besides that... how old of a movie is "older" they don't say? One could argue if it is in B&W it is an older movie. But at the same time one could argue a movie that came out last year is an older movie. Or anywhere in between. Yes, we've just been over that: that is indeed a problem. Again, I understand your point of the view: the use of the word "primarily" (as well as the vagueness of the term "older film") essentially eliminates the note for you - you'd contribute the exact same data whether the note was there or not. I'm merely explaining to you that it leads to bad data - although I understand that "bad" is a relative term. So let me re-phrase that: it leads to inconsistent data. Completely ignoring the note leads to a wide variety of jobs being lumped together under the "sound" credit - jobs that aren't even remotely related. That, in my humble opinion, is not a good thing. |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,732 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
So...if I see 'Re-Recording Mixer' in the sound section of a films credits I will add this to the profile as a Sound Re-Recording Mixer. Is this correct or does the absence of the word 'Sound' mean I should leave it out? Personally, I don't think so and would add this entry. No, you would of course add it as such, because the crew credits table actually does list "Re-recording Mixer" (without "Sound") as a valid role. It's as simple as that. Quote:
Now...if this is completely incorrect due to there being a significant difference between a Sound Recordist and a Recordist then please let me know (but preferably try not to bore me in the process ). There is indeed a (very) significant difference - which is why "recordist" is not listed as a valid role. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Ok...now I'm confused.
I will freely admit to NOT being any kind of expert on the sound section. In all honesty I have no interest in this section and only complete it for the benefit of others (and to complete a profile).
So...if I see 'Re-Recording Mixer' in the sound section of a films credits I will add this to the profile as a Sound Re-Recording Mixer. Is this correct or does the absence of the word 'Sound' mean I should leave it out?
Personally, I don't think so and would add this entry.
I therefore follow the same logic with the rest of the sound section. If someone is listed within the sound section as a 'Recordist' then I will add this under 'Sound'.
Now...if this is completely incorrect due to there being a significant difference between a Sound Recordist and a Recordist then please let me know (but preferably try not to bore me in the process ). I follow the same logic you do as it makes the most sense. I mean, come on, are we really going to say that a 'recordist', in the sound section, isn't the same as a 'Sound Recordist'? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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